The FoCTSRR will be repainting Rio Grande 40' Reefer #163 next summer. This reefer was painted in ART Reefer Yellow/Orange from the early 1950s until end of operations. I have three good photographs of this reefer taken in 1958 (when the paint was fairly new), 1967, and finally in 1968. All three photos have a Rio Grande yellow reefer next to them, so the contrast in color is obvious. There is a lot of discussion on what color ART Reefer Yellow/Orange actually was. Current thinking has the color being a lot more orange than the photographs would suggest; more like #167 at the CRRM. Through research, ART apparently sponsored the painting of five 40' reefers and one 30' reefer in the Alamosa Car Shops after 1949. But at that time frame, ART was painting their standard gauge reefers a yellow/orange color, which more closely approximates the color in the photos I have. ART did not change their reefer color to orange until 1965. Does anyone have any insights as to the actual orange color that these few reefers were painted?

Steve - Welcome to the interchange.

I have no data on ART colors. There is a book available on American Refrigerator Transit but I don’t know if there is any color data in it.

Probably of no help, but I think in the fifties you’re looking at the medium chrome yellow family (something like a school bus) on the sides and some shade of box car red on the ends and roof.

I’d be interested in whatever you find out so I can add it to the cross reference.

You could check with these guys. They did research on the reefer colors for the MDT cars a few years ago and it's a very similar color. https://www.rgvrrm.org/about/railroad/mdt12549/

Thanks for your helpful replies! I have the book, "American Refrigerator Transit", and it is a wealth of information on the history of ART. Chapter 5 is devoted to painting and lettering, but there is no specific information on the paint codes of the several shades of yellow that ART used on it's fleet from 1881 to 1965. I found another book, "The Great Yellow Fleet: A History of American Refrigerator Cars," that hopefully will yield some data when I get it. The "ART" book has quite a bit of information on both D&RGW NG and SG operations, and "TGYF" book is supposed to have equally as good information on D&RGW NG operations. I will definitely check the suggested website for data, and report my findings.

I have a copy of The Great Yellow Fleet. I don't recall any specific information on colors in there.

The Library of Congress has a number of color railroad photos that were taken by Jack Delano in World War 2. Some of them are views of yards - mainly in Chicago, I think. There might be something useful in there.

An Example:

https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsac.1a34780/

JR

Are there any places where you can sand down to an original color? If you can find a protected spot somewhere and ever so lightly sand down to the original color, then wipe some mineral oil over it, you’ll get a good idea of the color. There are portable hand held scanners that will give you the formula for a particular brand of paint. Assuming you’ll use a commercial/industrial product, talk to their regional manager about the possibility of having your prepared samples scanned. Some auto body paint shops may have one of those scanners for whatever brand of paint they use.

Even if you come up with the old brand and color number, it’ll be tough to match using those numbers since heavy metal pigments and high VOC finishes are no longer available. The original color yellow/orange pigment probably contained lead and chromate, big no-no’s today, lead being poisonous and chromate being a carcinogen.

Good luck and keep us posted.

There are 3 color images of ART cars from the 1960's in John Henderson's "Classic Freight Cars" subtitled A Trainload of "Reefer Madness". See pages 8 & 9.

As already mentioned, your best option should be to retrieve as much of the original paint as you can and do a custom mix from that. Unfortunately, even if somebody were to find the original ART paint codes, those codes will most likely be out of date with no documentation on their modern equivalent. I've found that to be the case in several instances in contacting paint manufacturers looking correlate historic paint code lists with modern products.

Take several samples of each color and keep them in polybags, labeled with the car they came off of and the date taken. To reinvigorate faded color, brush a small amount of linseed oil on the sample and that should restore it to its original hue. That way a modern paint mix can be made, and if you do this, please keep us updated on what the mix is!

The preservation scene unfortunately has a habit of sandblasting and needlescaling equipment down to the bare metal or wood without any attempt to maintain samples of the original paint. A lot of data is lost this way, especially since railroads often never stripped before repainting so many years of color data is hidden in those layers. If the Friends don't already have a library of paint samples, please start one from the equipment that has not yet been repainted.

This holds very true for DuPont colors. They can not be cross referenced to modern Axalta finishes (DuPont’s coatings successor). PPG and maybe Sherwin-Williams can use their old codes as a starting point but they’ll need a sample to compare to for the pigment colors and percentages. I don’t know about other manufacturers, it would be worthwhile to inquire with your supplier if you have their old color codes (other than DuPont/Axalta).

Your suggestions are spot on. I visited the CRRM in July and talked to Jeff Taylor about their reefer #167 which is (currently and was) painted "orange". He graciously lent me a paint sample of the orange shade the museum painted this reefer several years back, and allowed me to take paint chip samples from the car for analysis. I took chips from just under the roofline, in the area where the tack boards were (underneath them), from heavy dried drips hanging from hinges and ladders, and from several areas on the middle and lower sides. Some of these multi layered paint samples had (museum) orange on the top layer and (what appeared to be) original yellow next to weathered raw wood on the bottom layer. Not all paint samples had the same number of layers, as I assume that in the long periods between repainting, whole areas of paint had presumably cracked off exposing the raw wood sides, which of course got painted in the new color. I took these larger samples and carefully began sanding them down with #220 sandpaper to expose the different paint layers. What I found was interesting. The top layer of paint when lightly sanded yielded the CRRM orange color as expected. The second layer, curiously, was a shade of yellow. The third layer was what I would describe as a lighter burnt-orange color (ART reefer yellow/orange?), and the bottom (next to the wood) layer was yellow (as I would expect). The color of burnt orange I encountered closely resembles the color photo that Ernie Roberts took of #163 on November 18, 1967. This photo, (ERNG19671118-0190.jpg) is in the FoCTSRR photo archives. Unfortunately, this "photograph orange" color does not match the "reefer orange" that is on #167 on the CRRM. As I am not suitably skilled in this type of work, further analysis of the photograph, paint samples, and ART colors of the era are definitely warranted. As a side note, two other color photos in the FoCTSRR collection match the orange color in Ernie's photo.

Just a word of caution…

Take your photos and put them away when comparing colors. Don’t even consider trying to match paint colors from either digital images or photos. You will be sorely disappointed with the final product. There are so many lighting and color sensitivity variables in photography, not to mention weathering, which compound each other that it will be impossible to get a true match or sometimes even close. I’ve stared at and compared enough colors over the years as a graphic artist to know this is true especially when trying to replicate or restore an historic piece. Sometimes it can be a mind-numbing task but when you get it right, there’s quite a level of satisfaction.

Just an update on my quest to determine the actual "ART Orange" color used by the Rio Grande on five of its 40' Reefers in the 1950's. I sent two paint samples from the CRRM's #167 to Mr. David Arbogast, an architectural conservator and owner of Arbogast Paint Analysis. His research produced an astonishing 11 layers of paint on that reefer, some of which were separated by layers of dirt and two layers of varnish. He matched the colors of Yellow and Orange to the Munsell Color Code system. The first Yellow paint layer was 2.5Y 5/8, followed by two Yellow layers of 2.5Y 8.5/10, the last layer of which received a layer of dark glossy varnish. Then came three layers of a dull Orange-Rose, 2.5YR 5/7, (separated by thin layers of dirt), the last layer receiving a coat of dark glossy varnish. The next layer was a dull orange, 2.5YR 6/10. There was another layer of dirt followed by two noticeably different colors, a Peach, 5R 7/8, and a strong Orange, 2.5YR 5/14, most likely applied by the CRRM. (Curiously, there were also two layers of green mixed in the layers, one after the first layer of Yellow, and one after the third Orange-Rose...these could possibly be attributed to overspray from adjacent equipment being painted near #167). I contacted Pantone/X-rite to convert the Munsell Color Codes to paint chips. Only the Dull Orange 2.5YR 6/10 (presumably the last coat applied by the Rio Grande) could be economically reproduced. Interestingly, P-B-L Models Star Brand Paints, D&RGW Reefer Orange, STR-03, very closely matched the Orange-Rose and Dull Orange colors (being just slightly darker than the latter). I know it's not accepted practice, but the Dull Orange 2.5YR 6/10, also very closely matches the colors of several Ernie Robart's slides of #163 taken in 1967. So, it looks like it will be this color that will be recommended to paint the D&RGW/C&TSRR #163's sides next summer.

Steve - Talk to your paint supplier before you mix. While Munsell is a standard color system, it’s unlikely that your suppliers’s lab has the exact same equipment and/or calibration. Munsell would again be a good starting point and they should still have a sample to compare with.

You mentioned Pantone. If you can match a Pantone color card to Munsell, send the Pantone card to the lab for scanning. Pantone is for inks and dyes and does not compute in the paint/coatings world.

Of course, on the other hand, you can apply the 20’ rule and not tear your hair out. If it looks right at 20’, go with it.

Eric- Thanx for your reply and advice. I did get an 8 1/2" x 11" color chip from Pantone/X-Rite that corresponded to the Munsell Code 2.5YR 6/10 in Mr. Arbogast's analysis. I took it to Sherwin Williams, and they were unable to duplicate that exact color from the chip; the closest they could come was a Delta 2.3 (anything less than 1 is imperceptible to the normal eye and less than 3 is noticeable, but "close"). Likewise with Lowe's. Home Depot hit an almost exact match in their Behr paint line. I will try a few more paint suppliers and see what turns up. Of course the 20' rule you mentioned can be a player, especially considering that as soon as the reefer was painted by the Alamosa Car Shops, the paint began fading/weathering in the 7,000' plus altitude and climate of the mountains of Colorado!

I’ve had really good luck with working with the PPG lab in Pittsburgh. Those folks know their colors. Talk to the local Industrial Coating reps. They can recommend the right coatings and should have access to the color lab for matching and can usually get pretty darn close if not dead-on. Also keep in mind that in some cases, an exact match may be tough due to the use of different pigments nowadays - no more heavy metal pigments. This might play in more heavily with reds and yellows.

I wouldn’t rely on scanners in any retail outlets. You can get some results pretty far off the mark that’ll also vary significantly from batch to batch. Don’t ask how I know.

Disclaimer: I’m not affiliated with PPG in any way. For projects of our sizes in rail preservation, I’ve had the best response and results with them, though. So far….

Oh, and just one more tip: if you have multiple containers of paint, mix them all together in equal amounts. That eliminates any subtle differences between containers. Especially if you switch buckets in the middle of a car side.