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 Post subject: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:14 am
Posts: 16
Ok folks, what is everyone using to supply electric power to the cars for lights and some kitchen equipment? Right now it is just a general idea on where, what, or whom to purchase from.
Also air conditioning to use.
Thank you in advance


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:14 am
Posts: 174
We have a Stadco gen set mounted under one of our cars. I don't remember what the KW rating is, but it has no problem powering 5 cars. It is single phase 220v.
Two of our cars have forced air LP furnaces with Carrier AC units. The heat struggles if the outside temp gets below 10, and the ac begins to struggle above 80. Otherwise they get the job done.
Two of our older cars have overhead forced air LP units that work very well. We also have an infrared heater in each of these cars to dry snow melt off the floor near the doors and Kickstart the heating process on the really cold mornings.
The last car (caboose) I just installed a wall mount blue flame heater in. I am undecided as to how well this works as I installed it yesterday. I will know more after it is in service longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:27 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 70
I don't know what type of operation you are running or what your resources are, but Northwest Rail in Portland, Or. is the go-to company for Power and HVAC needs in the Private Car industry. Systems are pretty much designed to run off 480V Head End Power, but you could use a Stadco Generator instead.

Eric


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:14 am
Posts: 16
Thanks for the info.
On your stadco, if don't mind. You running 240 the whole way and using transformers in each car? What kind of jumpers do you use between cars?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:14 am
Posts: 174
Right now we are in the process of upgrading our connectors between cars. The original style in use when I joined was the "fork lift" style connector. Not safe and prone to issues. We are installing Meltric 4 pole connectors. Each car has 4 conductor cable. This means that the cars are wired just like a house. L1, L2, neutral and ground. No transformers required. Only a breaker box in each car. As we replace more of our light bulbs with LED, the system works better every year.

I would be happy to get you more info if needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:14 am
Posts: 16
What size breaker panels are you using?
We got a quote and because of refrigerators and air conditioning, not installed yet it was 15k a car. I think its so high because each car would have to be able to carry the total current of the system because of changing the consist around. That's some big wire and cables


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:38 pm
Posts: 54
The operation that I am working with has a 40 KW Stadco generator on one car as the primary generator and will soon have a 6 KW generator on the train available to run just the power car and coach lighting. Our system is 240 volt 3 phase. 1 car has a fuel oil fired hot water system. 1 car has an electric element in the overhead air handling system for the mild days and a functioning steam heat system for heating on the really cold days. Both of these cars have their own air conditioning systems. Then the next car is the power car that supplies the steam for the steam heat system for the cars that use steam heat. The boiler in this car has a 3 phase burner. The lighting in the remaining cars is single phase. The way the electrical connections are set up, the consist can only be set up in a certain way.

I am curious what everyone else is using for the connections between the cars to send 3 phase to the whole consist. We have looked at the Amtrak style plug. We like the idea of having the 3 power lugs and 3 smaller control lugs available to eventually set up a control loop. I am just curious what others are using.

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 67
Just catching up on this thread - just a couple thoughts.

EW - you're using Meltric? Last prices I saw on line for their stuff put the cost at 30% to 100% above Clements Cadillac standard trainline stuff, and that's just for the Meltric fittings - no wire, strain relief, etc. that's integral to the Clements stuff. Plus it's not really designed for rail service.

Berks - I don't know what your design/load/needs are or what your quote covered, but $15k doesn't seem excessive at all for lights, A/C, kitchen, in fact I 'd say it's a steal without more information. If you're putting a dining car together from relative scratch I'd say you'd start talking at a decent shell + $250k and go up (rapidly) from there. And don't skimp on electrical. You have many, many more considerations/hazards with rail equipment than household or regular commercial electric.

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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 128
Location: Orrville, OH
Each of our cars has its own Stadco for lighting, overhead AC, full length baseboard heating and receptacles where needed. I don't recall the KW ratings but suffice it to say we have more than enough power to run vacuums, tools and whatever else we need to service the cars without having to plug into an outside source though that option is available if we need to. The only downsides are the need to fuel each car, a bit more maintenance and the constant hum from the generators.

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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:14 am
Posts: 16
Thanks guys,
No 15 k is a steal, but the genset won't fit under the car. The stadco genset is 29500 refurbished.
Still looking for a ac system. The problem is old 1920 coaches and ac would need to be hidden. Not a big deal for air handler, but were to put the condensation unit and also what ton rating to go with. One local hvac company looked at the car and opted out.
Anyone using split system.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
We have learned a lot over the years, much of it what not to do. There are a lot of things that may work on paper, or in the short run, but don't stand up in service. What kind of cars are involved, what type of service will they be used for, and what existing systems are present can give a starting point. Northwest and Stadco have good products, but they are not cheap. The car we are currently working on (1949 Pullman built) will have a combination of HEP and a generator, with original overhead A/C coils and Amtrak style under car system. Heat is electric baseboard, but we'll probably add an overhead grid also. The goal is rugged, reliable, and easy to maintain under all operating conditions.

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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 663
Location: MA
Large RV generators is what I have seen used on CN heavy weights. For heating they removed some seats and put in a propane furnace. For cooling you opened the windows.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 661
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Check with New Hope and Ivyland Railroad here in PA.

Their "parlor/dining cars" are former Reading Company 1918-1923 era steel coaches converted for said use. They both have AC via ductless system, each car has its own generator. The condenser unit is mounted on the platform, closing off one of the 4 sets of steps, but it must work as its been a couple years now with this set up.

Prior set up was window AC units.


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 Post subject: Re: Passenger car power and cooling
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 255
Location: H2O-town, CT
EWrice wrote:
Right now we are in the process of upgrading our connectors between cars. The original style in use when I joined was the "fork lift" style connector. Not safe and prone to issues. We are installing Meltric 4 pole connectors. Each car has 4 conductor cable. This means that the cars are wired just like a house. L1, L2, neutral and ground. No transformers required. Only a breaker box in each car. As we replace more of our light bulbs with LED, the system works better every year.

I would be happy to get you more info if needed.


Anderson is the connector you referred to as being forklift. They are not weather tight or good where they will be subjected to flexing.


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