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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:58 pm
Posts: 80
On the Reading, I believe a horizontal 2 light color light signal was usually a train order signal. Is this near a station? From the way you described it, I thought for sure you were talking about the signal between Rhawn Street and Pine Rd. on the Newtown branch, but this does not appear to be it.

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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Pittsburgh
"is it OK to guess the location?"

The postulation of this Reading Company alumnus is the Frankford Branch just east of the bridge carrying Rising Sun Avenue. Might be within reach of a crane sitting on the bridge.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 640
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Larry Lovejoy wrote:
"is it OK to guess the location?"

The postulation of this Reading Company alumnus is the Frankford Branch just east of the bridge carrying Rising Sun Avenue. Might be within reach of a crane sitting on the bridge.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


Yup. Access is NOT that difficult with proper equipment from the bridge. I'm just afraid it will disappear or be further damaged before it can be preserved. Once summer hits, you cannot see it.

Answering the train order question : Technically it was on the approach to Crescentville station, which sat around the bend closer to Frankford Jct., near the old lumber yard, where 3M later built their plant, almost across from Bond Bread. That station and it's building disappeared when Passenger service on the branch ended in the 30s and passenger pickup was "transferred" to a crappy boarding platform (cinder/dirt ballast platform with no building) on the Newtown line that lasted into the 70s.

The signals ladder is still intact​, the base appears to have sunk a bit into the mud....Drainage in the area as you can see is horrible....Was even when the rails we're still in place.

Sorry I can't get pictures from the other side.....Without knowing who owns the property, I'm not jumping the fence to go down there and get caught, or stuck in the muck.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 640
Location: Philadelphia Pa
dinwitty wrote:
That is making sense to me, a low level dwarf absolute signal, horizontal 2 light for clearance to the main. Apparently Reading used some horizontal heads, the umbrella in the pic threw me off expecting a bigger signal. Its not a target signal. I would say its a rare breed signal worth the preservation and recovery.


The umbrella is hanging on a tree about 30-40 feet closer to my standing location than the signal.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4920
Anybody got a photo of one of these signals when it was still in service for the Reading Company? Thanks.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:54 pm
Posts: 17
Les Beckman wrote:
Anybody got a photo of one of these signals when it was still in service for the Reading Company? Thanks.

Les

As a matter of fact, I have. This one is/was in Bethlehem. http://www.readingrailroad.org/gallery/ ... eam624.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 146
I'm going to ask the question no none has seemed to have yet asked. Who owns the property of the signal? If SEPTA owns the property which wouldn't surprise me then you may have a big bureaucratic problem on your hands. Going down there to look at it is one thing but removing it (god forbid someone sees you) is a whole different ballpark. Better get paperwork in check, a crew on the site in case something goes wrong, waiver signed so you can't blame them I don't think you've put a lot of thought into this.

When I tried purchasing a position light signal from the MTA they tried everything to get me off their case. The general manager of the Signal Department wrote me off when I gave him a call and their PR people pretended to not know what I was talking about. Corporate agencies are an uphill battle which unless you're willing to spend some will cost more than your original expectations. My suggestion find another one it's not worth the wait.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4920
ColebrookdaleRailfan wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
Anybody got a photo of one of these signals when it was still in service for the Reading Company? Thanks.

Les

As a matter of fact, I have. This one is/was in Bethlehem. http://www.readingrailroad.org/gallery/ ... eam624.jpg


Thanks for the photo. Now at least we know the type of signal being discussed. BTW, two lights; red and green; red and yellow; yellow and green or ?

Thanks!


Les


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1996
I've been trying to find examples of this signal but its an evasive dig. But I get that now.

Nearest idea is this.

Image

just take a light out.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Pittsburgh
“Who owns the property of the signal?”

The USRA Final System Plan transferred the Frankford Branch to Conrail, and there hasn’t been any passenger traffic on the line in over 50 years, so it’s not SEPTA. Beyond that, it’s not clear. The City of Philadelphia Tax Assessor’s website isn’t particularly helpful and Junior therefore might need to go down to City Hall. I’d not be surprised if this property still belongs to Conrail. That’s presuming that Conrail (and the Reading Company before them) actually owned the land in fee simple. If all the Reading had was a “right-of-way”, those property rights may have expired when the tracks were removed. At that point, the land may have reverted to either the adjoiners or some other successor to the rights of whomever originally granted an easement to the railroad.

There’s one other possibility. Reading Company sold a lot of their real property interests to Philadelphia Electric Company for power transmission lines, retaining the right to keep the railroad there. There’s no power line here, but that’s no guarantee that PECo didn’t buy the land from the RDG.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:42 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1996
http://www.railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/rdg54/index.htm

if you used the rulebook, such a signal would only be yellow and red for permissive or stop.

other aspects always show 2 heads, but not a green only aspect.


green and red would make a train order signal I don't think this is train order especially if it leads into the main, but apparently a station was nearby.

I would think the red would be closest to the rails, just thinking the practicality of the color position relative to the cab position for best safety, why normal color light signals the red is lowest at level to the cab (or closest).
Dwarfs blow that theory out, but I am still digging info what to look for.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 113
Location: willow grove pa
The property is listed as a "greenway" on the City of Philadelphia property maps. The line from the New York short line over to Tabor Ave has the listed owner as the city of Philadelphia including the old layoff yard used for Excide Battery and holding pen for Sears.
It is in the 2ND police district, do you removal on Sunday AM at 7ish, police still busy from the night before and shift change to boot!
google the location, you will get a better view


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 1996
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=181&t=44128

Heres a thread on the line.

I don't reccomend sneaking in, its better the authorities know so that any somebody thinking its some wackoes doing things and calling in gets you in trouble. Publisizing it I would not so any wackoes wanna do you trouble.. but the time to do it might be smart, or really better, during a time where activity in the area is low.

You may want a policeman present to help protect you.

it may have been designated a protected greenway for local anmal life.

I tend to think the activity might attract the news media anyways.

I've poked around for more data but I think we have a good zero in on the signal ID.

That umbrella musta gotten lost hung up and forgotten or got flung out there whatever, kinda funny it sits there.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:41 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Philadelphia Area
There was one of these closer to the Olney station, just above where the 2nd Street Branch "joined" the NYSL, just across from the Heintz plant. The track ran alongside the NYSL, had one spur off to the right to the Hall-Woodford Tank Co, and then continued NB towards Frankford Jct. I think there was also another siding closer to the Olney station. I have a pix of a N&W car sitting there in the early '80's.

A storage spur for Heintz boxcars sprouted about a half-mile past the Olney Ave. Bridge and ended just north of the signal mast. The connection and crossovers for the shifter to access Heintz were close to that siding switch. The FJ tower was about another mile past this location, close to the signal in question.

CR's ZTS maps showed the configuration and car spot locations at Heintz. I'll look for my scan.....

Also saw one of these along the Pennypack Trail, above the crossing with the WT Branch.


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 Post subject: Re: An old Reading Railroad branch signal
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:41 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Philadelphia Area
This should help explain my explanation. The other oval signal was at the end of track 225.
Plus, track 711's location isn't 100% accurate. The door to the siding was on the other side of the Olney Ave. bridge. There's a photo of it in promo booklet 'This is the Reading', published in 1958 (or so).


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CR ZTS Olney Aug 1991.jpg
CR ZTS Olney Aug 1991.jpg [ 197.83 KiB | Viewed 335 times ]
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