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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:12 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5250
Location: southeastern USA
Since we're all telling Strasburg what to do, I'll throw in another idea: build a new replica of the 4-4-0 you really want to run. If there's any shop in the US capable of doing this, it's Strasburg's.

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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:09 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 794
Location: NJ
The subject of 972 came up on Facebook recently, and of course the thread drifted to 1187. The points that I made there, scratching both itches, is that Strasburg does not need another 'large' engine right now, and that 1187 just isn't large or fast enough to economically justify its return to service. You can pull a small train with a large engine, but not the other way around. Right now, for SRC to restore and put either 972 or 1187 into service would me a major indulgence, probably approaching or even surpassing a million dollars each. Although Strasburg does a lot of nice things, they are a business first.

Another thing that I noticed, and this was here on RyPN, was that the plans for the NPS engines, 119 and Jupiter, are public domain and online. Again while it would be more practical to build a new 4-4-0 than another MUCH larger new engine that is in the works, a small 4-4-0 would be very limited in just what it could pull. Again, a case of economics, although some of the construction techniques (i.e. weldments instead of castings and riveting, etc.) and plans could be used to scale up and build a larger engine, say a medium sized 4-6-0. After all, the NKP Berks were a scaled down version of the C&O 2-10-4s.


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 55
While I agree that an operational restoration might not be practical, I believe that it would be nice to hear that some plan exists for this engine, even if it is a cosmetic restoration, given its historic value. It's hard to see it just sitting out in the elements looking worse and worse from year to year.


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 660
Location: Philadelphia Pa
...Threads never drift......


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 143
Trying to slam the thread back to something near the original topic: I'd like to say Beautiful Work on the superheater units and ask a question. When hydro testing units, is there a common (dare I say standard) pressure to use?

Thanks, Kelly & keep up the wonderful work!.....mld


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:52 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Strasburg, PA
daylight4449 wrote:
That presents a good question... What does #1187 need to get it into working order again?

Everything. New tender tank, tender frame and truck overhaul, 1472 SDI most likely with heavy sheet replacement, general running gear overhaul, replacement of cab, replacement of plumbing.


rem1028 wrote:
While I agree that an operational restoration might not be practical, I believe that it would be nice to hear that some plan exists for this engine, even if it is a cosmetic restoration, given its historic value. It's hard to see it just sitting out in the elements looking worse and worse from year to year.

To what end? If we put the time (read money) into a nice cosmetic restoration, five years later it will be an eyesore again, requiring another infusion of cash to keep it presentable (i.e. it will become a money pit with zero return on investment). As it is now, with no jacketing or other water traps, it is stable. It is in no worse condition now than it was five years ago. It will be in no worse condition five years from now than it is today.

Money spent on #1187 equals the amount of money that would no longer be available to work on another piece of revenue producing equipment. What would you like us to defer maintaining? We are doing the best we can, money doesn’t grow on trees.

As I have said before, the federal government has nothing on railfans when it comes to unfunded mandates. The simple truth is that we have enough locomotives now to cover our operation. #31 is half way through an overhaul that is currently on hold because we don’t have enough time (read money) to complete her right now. When she is back in operation, should we need another locomotive, #972 is the most likely candidate. Why wouldn’t it be? It’s already here and belongs to us.


mldeets wrote:
Trying to slam the thread back to something near the original topic: I'd like to say Beautiful Work on the superheater units and ask a question. When hydro testing units, is there a common (dare I say standard) pressure to use?

We hydro units to our in house standard of 800 PSI. Thanks for the on topic question.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:03 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 234
More foam here than a brewery explosion.

Mr. Anderson - Thank you for continuing to post information about the technically interesting work accomplished by your privately held company.

As for the superheater units, are they all new or were the return ends and header fittings reused? Were the originals sent to your shops for use as patterns? If so, any observations or photos as to condition and/or issues other than normal wear and tear?


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:06 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Strasburg, PA
The R&N units are all new other than the clamps to the header and cinder shields. I never saw the originals.

Measurements were taken from the engine, and the units built to BLW standard sizes.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:17 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 234
Thank you. Also, a while back you showed one of your wood cars being resided with Boral fly ash trim. I used it on my home project and have found it to be a very good wood substitute. It is much more dimensionally stable than the Azek type board, has no minimum clearance to ground/water like cement board products like Hardie, and cuts and holds fasteners nicely. How is the Boral-sided car holding up? Have you used the fly ash product in other cars/ applications?


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:46 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Strasburg, PA
Scranton Yard wrote:
Thank you. Also, a while back you showed one of your wood cars being resided with Boral fly ash trim. I used it on my home project and have found it to be a very good wood substitute. It is much more dimensionally stable than the Azek type board, has no minimum clearance to ground/water like cement board products like Hardie, and cuts and holds fasteners nicely. How is the Boral-sided car holding up? Have you used the fly ash product in other cars/ applications?

So far, we are very pleased with it. Our CV box car is sided with it. Marian's new letter board is made of it, and the B&O car will be sided in a combination of Boral and PVC.

Correction to an earlier post. The car with the spoked wheels is not the B&O café-lounge. It is the Rutland coach-smoker #704, also a six axle car.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:40 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2091
Location: Northern Illinois
Kelly Anderson wrote:

rem1028 wrote:
While I agree that an operational restoration might not be practical, I believe that it would be nice to hear that some plan exists for this engine, even if it is a cosmetic restoration, given its historic value. It's hard to see it just sitting out in the elements looking worse and worse from year to year.

To what end? If we put the time (read money) into a nice cosmetic restoration, five years later it will be an eyesore again, requiring another infusion of cash to keep it presentable (i.e. it will become a money pit with zero return on investment). As it is now, with no jacketing or other water traps, it is stable. It is in no worse condition now than it was five years ago. It will be in no worse condition five years from now than it is today.


I might note, as someone who has been interested in railway preservation for a long time (quickly closing in on fifty years) that this is an age-old problem for museums... Do you spend the money to fix the artifact, only to have it slowly dissolve in the rain again, or do you spend the money on a building to house the artifact, thereby arresting it's deterioration, and hopefully allowing restoration to be done at some future date?

The problem concerning Strasburg is they are NOT a museum. Their business plan has to be geared to maintaining and expanding their core business, which is providing the ride experience, which they do very well. There is nothing that I am aware of in their business plan for display buildings; that is a function for a museum, such as the one across the street.

I am sure that the little Reading engine was acquired years ago because it was cute, available, and looked like it would be useful for light days. I actually have memories of it sitting hot on stand-by the first time I visited Strasburg, about 1964. It's a shame its relevance to the business waned over the years, but at least it is still with us.

What is needed is someone who appreciates its significance to fund acquisition and restoration by an organization that can dispaly it properly.

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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 660
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Scranton Yard wrote:
Thank you. Also, a while back you showed one of your wood cars being resided with Boral fly ash trim. I used it on my home project and have found it to be a very good wood substitute. It is much more dimensionally stable than the Azek type board, has no minimum clearance to ground/water like cement board products like Hardie, and cuts and holds fasteners nicely. How is the Boral-sided car holding up? Have you used the fly ash product in other cars/ applications?

So far, we are very pleased with it. Our CV box car is sided with it. Marian's new letter board is made of it, and the B&O car will be sided in a combination of Boral and PVC.

Correction to an earlier post. The car with the spoked wheels is not the B&O café-lounge. It is the Rutland coach-smoker #704, also a six axle car.


How well and how long does the PVC hold up?....I know in some cases it can become brittle after some years of exposure....


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:32 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1235
Location: Strasburg, PA
junior wrote:
How well and how long does the PVC hold up?....I know in some cases it can become brittle after some years of exposure....

We will tell you that in some years. Haven't been using it for that long, and only for small pieces (such as tongue and groove) because it expands and contracts like mad.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:45 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 234
PVC (Azek for instance) is very dimensionally unstable. As far as UV embrittlement, for thicker material (3/4" or 5/4") it should not be too much of an issue. Boral now makes a v-groove material that may be OK for you T&G application. Here's a link:

http://www.boralamerica.com/TruExterior/truexterior-siding/v-rustic/V-Rustic


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 Post subject: Re: The Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 964
Location: Leicester, MA.
As far as PVC is concerned, I can think of two applications where it's been used... My house and the owner of the company where I work (Al's Oil). We employed it in making window frames when we enclosed the deck at our house about three or four years ago. So far it's held up very well... My father took the idea from the owner's house, as he used the same material about fifteen years ago when he did some renovations on his house. I haven't seen that application, but seeing it and asking the owner how it's held up was enough to convince Dad to invest in it. I haven't seen the material get brittle, but I've only seen warping in smaller strips that we affixed screens to... Other than that I haven't seen the thicker boards warp. Granted we're talking a different application than what Strasburg has used the stuff for, but I think its safe to say that the insights still are useful...

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