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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:59 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 822
Location: NJ
PMC wrote:
Earlier in the thread you said that one of the ends was salvageable. Not knowing much about rebuilding wood cars I assumed that meant you would take the whole end- siding, door and all- and just drop it into place, but it looks like you disassembled it first, right?


The end posts were rotted away and were replaced with new as was the top plate. But the rest of the wall was used just as we took it down. There was very little inside siding left. And since the top plate was replaced, we really just had two halves to fit in place.

We thought one door was salvageable but it required a lot of work. Until I started to rebuild it and found it was rotted inside so I made a new one. We were given a door by the Whippany folks when they had theirs professionally rebuilt.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:35 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 622
Location: Wall, NJ
Two big milestones reached this weekend on the Hainesport N6b. With a lot of help, a crew of six actually this weekend, we were successful in getting the roof installed. No easy task, the planning and prep work of which has been in the works for months. Just getting the 80 or so planks primed ahead of time was a lot of work, again which would not have gone so quickly without help, while Ed and I sorted the rafters and their installation.

Now, I know some will question the square bottom of the rafters. We just wanted the extra strength. For what ever reason, the PRR stripped out the steel sister bars that go with each rafter and used only two (one either side of the cupola base) I would guess during its last PRR rebuild. Height is not bad, a 6’4” person can walk under them no problem.

Plywood will cover the cupola opening until it is built and installed.

The other big milestone was the retirement of our tent. It served us well over three years without failure. Granted we made improvements, using a tarp rather than the usual tent cover which allows water to drain better, added self-tapping screws at each pipe joint, and used tie down straps diagonally and straight down to the caboose frame to add stability in windy conditions.

Next step? Finish the roof edges and trim the ends. Then its time to work on the siding. Maybe have it fully enclosed by the 4th anniversary of its discovery via ebay in a NJ backyard?

A couple of observations. An interest in preservation is not dead in NJ. There are young people with an interest in that preservation and are willing to jump in with both feet to support the cause. You don’t need to be working in an expensive building, outdoors is indeed doable, although it may take a little longer. And once the siding is done, it can go back on its trucks. Keeping the frame/body as close to the ground as possible really makes working on it much easier.

I think this will take you to a new facebook link dedicated to the N6b:

https://www.facebook.com/PRRCabooseRestorationProject/

Thanks again to the younger guys for helping this year starting with the truck rehab and then the roof work (I am hesitant to provide names as I am bound to leave someone out!) .

J.R./Ed


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5939
J.R./Ed -

BEEE-YUUUU-TI-FULL!!!!


Les


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
In the third photo it looks like you have a tarp on top of the new roof, and then something with a peak to direct water away from the tarp. What is the peaked thing made from?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 622
Location: Wall, NJ
> In the third photo it looks like you have a tarp on top of the new roof, and then something with a peak to direct water away from the tarp. What is the peaked thing made from?


I think what you are seeing is the old tent and frame over the new roof rafters before the planks were put into place on the rafters. When we did the sub floor we left some floor boards long to mount our tent to so that the tent was really part of the car itself. You can see this in the last photo, but is missing in other photos. We used self tapping screws at all pipe joints then used Harbor Freight straps to tie it down to the floor boards and diagonal straps for wind stability when were were not working on the car. A slightly smaller tarp was bought for the steel tent frame which allowed rain to run off and not gather at the horizontal pipe work. Really worked quite well. Prior to the side walls going up, we ran heavy rope half way up the poles and the length of the car to help ensure we did not fall off the side of the car. All that was removed Saturday when the roof planks were put in place. A form fitting tarp is now over the new roof. We will cut the long subfloor boards off this coming weekend.

The attached gives you an idea of how we did the tent. 10x20 foot, all total maybe we had $175 into it. Served us well.


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End Wall 22 June 2019 c sm.jpg
End Wall 22 June 2019 c sm.jpg [ 119.53 KiB | Viewed 1769 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 175
JR May wrote:

Now, I know some will question the square bottom of the rafters. We just wanted the extra strength. For what ever reason, the PRR stripped out the steel sister bars that go with each rafter and used only two (one either side of the cupola base) I would guess during its last PRR rebuild. Height is not bad, a 6’4” person can walk under them no problem.

J.R./Ed


How will this change in rafters effect your closet construction?

Are the rafters sitting on top of the side beams or in notches?

Edit: I just saw the Facebook pic that shows them sitting in notches.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:28 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 622
Location: Wall, NJ
The square bottom rafters were not our idea. As originally built, the rafters under the ends of the cupola are not arched, they are square, flat bottom, cut so we just expanded on that idea. Cabinet doors under the cupola thus clear the square cut rafters and the cupola upper seat deck per PRR design so the clearance is built in. Cabinets beyond the cupola have doors of the same height as the cabinets under the cupola so they clear the square cut rafters that we used. Again, the idea to just go with square cut, or flat bottom, rafters was not really our idea, we just expanded on what the PRR had under the cupola.

As you noted, the rafters do sit in a notch in the top plate. Those timbers were expensive so getting all those notches in the right spot was rather high stress. 32’ long Douglas Fir is not something you run down to Home Depot to pick up if you screw one up.

The question will be asked, will you hit your head? The entry doors in the car are very short, so chances are a taller person will smack their head just entering the car. If one did not hit their head there, they would have hit their head walking under the cupola, so we just kept things a bit consistent once inside. Head room is actually about 6’3” under the flat bottom rafters, door clearance is under 6’.

So why go with flat bottom rafters? We used standard sized lumber for them which is slightly narrow versus full dimensional lumber as originally used. We also felt that today’s lumber is not of the same quality, strength wise, as the old growth Southern Yellow Pine that was used. We could have purchased some full dimension doug fir, and cut the arch, but it would have been very expensive and produced a terrible amount of waste.

Hope this was useful,
J.R.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Nice work.
Which number and which color was used last, and was that in Maintenance of Way service?


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 622
Location: Wall, NJ
Jim:
Exterior was yellow, interior an ugly silver color. We are going with yellow on the exterior, but not going with the odd silver on the interior.

Going with the MOW number that was on it when we found it, 492406.

J.R.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 175
JR May wrote:
The square bottom rafters were not our idea. As originally built, the rafters under the ends of the cupola are not arched, they are square, flat bottom, cut so we just expanded on that idea. Cabinet doors under the cupola thus clear the square cut rafters and the cupola upper seat deck per PRR design so the clearance is built in. Cabinets beyond the cupola have doors of the same height as the cabinets under the cupola so they clear the square cut rafters that we used. Again, the idea to just go with square cut, or flat bottom, rafters was not really our idea, we just expanded on what the PRR had under the cupola.

As you noted, the rafters do sit in a notch in the top plate. Those timbers were expensive so getting all those notches in the right spot was rather high stress. 32’ long Douglas Fir is not something you run down to Home Depot to pick up if you screw one up.

The question will be asked, will you hit your head? The entry doors in the car are very short, so chances are a taller person will smack their head just entering the car. If one did not hit their head there, they would have hit their head walking under the cupola, so we just kept things a bit consistent once inside. Head room is actually about 6’3” under the flat bottom rafters, door clearance is under 6’.

So why go with flat bottom rafters? We used standard sized lumber for them which is slightly narrow versus full dimensional lumber as originally used. We also felt that today’s lumber is not of the same quality, strength wise, as the old growth Southern Yellow Pine that was used. We could have purchased some full dimension doug fir, and cut the arch, but it would have been very expensive and produced a terrible amount of waste.

Hope this was useful,
J.R.


It looks nice. Since I have been down the same road, I was just curious about the why and what.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 313
Location: San Francisco, CA
folks,
You guys are doing an amazing job on that PRR Cabin Car. Years ago I stayed in one at the red caboose motel in Strasburg; but it was steel.

The biggest caboose restoration job I have seen up to now was an SP caboose at the NWP yard in Petaluma.

The car had been part of a pizza restaurant and had a whole side removed down to the sill. The car can be seen on the Northwestern Pacific Railroad website.

Ted Miles, I like cabooses.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 622
Location: Wall, NJ
A rather sad update to those watching the progress we have been making on the N6b. Yesterday, Ed Rizzo, known to many as “Mr. Ed,” passed away after a six week battle with COVID-19. Ed was key to bringing reality to this project as he was a wood worker to begin with and had the can-do attitude needed to take it on.

Ed was a good friend and a blast to work with. Luckily we did most of the work as a team, and Ed was a great teacher, so I have, I think, picked up on some of the skills needed to move the project along. We have had some great help from a team of younger guys who I suspect will ensure that the project is completed and finds its way to live rail.

Ed was also instrumental in the move of the Jackson and Sharp coach which was at the West Chester RR a few years ago and later in the move of the Trenton 288 trolley car body to a safe haven (which he so looked forward to working on). Ed was of course active with the Pemberton Township Historic Trust and was involved in many of their moves as well.

He will be missed in so many ways,
J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:41 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1372
I'm very sorry for your loss.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:22 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Edward R. Rizzo
December 29, 1947 - December 27, 2020
Edward R Rizzo, 72 years young, of Washington Township New Jersey, formally resided in Landsdowne, Pa. passed away December 27th 2020. Devoted father of Danielle Fruits (Tyler) and Anthony Rizzo. Loving grandfather of Freya. Dear brother of Bernice Harding (Ron), Christopher, Marguerite, Jerome Michele, and the late Nicholas Rizzo. Loved by nieces, nephews, and cousins. Also survived by Anna Marie Rizzo.

A decorated Vietnam Veteran in the United States Navy aboard the USS Ticonderoga CVA. 14 where he served four years. Ed worked as a sales engineer in air conditioning and refrigeration with various companies. Ed was an antique car enthusiast his whole life. He loved restoring cars such as, Thunderbirds, Javelins, and most recently AMC’s. When one project was finished a new one came about. He also loved working on the restoration of rail cars in Pemberton, NJ and was a member of the historic trust. He made a weekly habit of going out to dinner with his closest car buddies and showing off their latest projects. He was an active member of the local American Legion 0521. Aside from his love of cars Ed was a true animal lover and an avid supporter of the ASPCA. But most of all the love for his family was his greatest reward.

Family and friends are in invited to attend his visitation Thursday 9:30-11:00 AM at the Egizi Funeral Home, 119 Ganttown Rd. Washington Twp. Funeral service 11:00 AM.

In lieu of flowers, donations in Edward’s Memory may be made to “Veterans Helping Veterans”, Veterans Advisory Council P.O. Box 337 Woodbury, NJ 08096.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR N6b on ebay
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2471
I am so sorry to hear this. In addition to the devastating human toll, Covid is robbing us of so many wonderful sources of knowledge. I communicated with Ed quite a bit during the Pemberton debacle. He deserves credit for helping get a number of pieces out of there before the hammer fell. He had a tremendous attitude: he wanted to see the museum stay, but he was also realistic about getting the equipment to safety. RIP Ed, you left us too soon. - Rob

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Rob


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