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 Post subject: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 pm
Posts: 31
Does anyone know what issues this locomotive may have? I read that Ross Rowland looked into it at one time, does anyone know the results of that inspection? I know John Bush did the cosmetic restoration while it was at Palmer Lake, and he said it has a bent frame... I know this is true.

"At the time of this photograph, D&RG consolidation number 433 was on display in Palmer Lake (about halfway between Denver and Colorado Springs). It has since been moved to the Colorado Central Station Casino in Blackhawk, CO and renumbered "71" (the real C&S #71 is on display in Central City at the Coeur d'Alene mine). 433 sits on display almost exactly where the east end of the original C&S narrow gauge yards ran up the canyon. 433 is a beautiful locomotive in terrible mechanical shape according to Floyd Cothran's inspection several years ago when another party was interested in possibly restoring it to operation. It is probably important to know that 433 was used in Central America and never ran on D&RG."

From: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/colorado/

Thanks,
Cody Muse


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
Cody,

The way I heard it, when CyZ #12 was lifted by crane for the Palmer Lake display, she touched down with one "corner" low, bending the frame.

A good while ago I had some joker try to convince me that #12 was a real D&RGW engine just because they put a fake paint job on her, and put a fake road name and number on her and her paperwork. Just ain't so. He didn't realize that he was talking to somebody who saw the CyZ in the late 60's, and I have the pictures to prove it...

Not to be a wisenheimer here, but the Coahuila y Zacatecas was not in Central America, it was in Northern Mexico, based in Saltillo, Coahuila (state). There seems to be a general confusion about this issue, but Mexico is part of North America. While the geographical division between North America and Central America could reasonably be considered to be the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, in Southern Mexico, for political purposes, it is the Southern border of Mexico (with Guatemala and Belize).

There is a museum in Saltillo dedicated to the CyZ, they sure would like to get her back...

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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Don't know anything about this engine. Doesn't sound credible that its frame could have been bent by an uneven lifting but I guess it's remotely possible??

Hope it turns out well.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 390
Location: Winters, TX
The locomotive was also involved in a fire while stored by the Early West group in Pomona near the county fairgrounds. I don't know the extent of fire damage, whether it just singed the paint or did more extensive damage.

BTW, welcome to the group!


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 36
When the locomotive was located in Palmer Lake and for sale, a former DRGW engineer looked it over. His opinion was that the frame had cracked in many places and was welded together, but not necessarily very well.

He felt overall the engine was tired and that running it would cost a lot of money.

Dan Quiat


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:53 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 pm
Posts: 31
Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Sammy,
Well I would say that sounds right... That's one of those times you say, Well I did get to see it running in Mexico so... Haha
That has been something that has somewhat bothered me it's MEXICO not Central America... But what can I do.

Ross,
Sorry about that... I guess this would be a perfect example of how reliable the internet is.. Lol

Charlie,
This is news to me, I didn't know about any fires... When I saw it it didn't look like there was any visable damage (of course it would have been painted since).

Thanks for the welcome message! Happy to be part of the group!

Dan,
What engineer was it? Well it wouldn't be my first choice to restore either... It probably wouldn't be cost effective to restore it. They sure did run there engines hard, I know the CyZ #1 in Iowa has a bad boiler and a cracked saddle...

Thanks again everyone!

Cody Muse


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:38 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 524
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
I heard that the cylinders had worked loose from the long bolts connecting to the frame and that the frame front and cylinder casting holes were all "worked" over sized. That is a bad problem to repair. D&S k28 had that happen and the repair cost discussed was very high. The loco you are asking about was ran long after the issues were identified so, the cost could be like that of a City budget for a year or so. It might remain a pedestal loco forever.

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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
Quote:
I heard that the cylinders had worked loose from the long bolts connecting to the frame and that the frame front and cylinder casting holes were all "worked" over sized. That is a bad problem to repair. D&S k28 had that happen and the repair cost discussed was very high. The loco you are asking about was ran long after the issues were identified so, the cost could be like that of a City budget for a year or so. It might remain a pedestal loco forever.


I beg the question: So long as the integrity of the steam passages is not affected, why would it be so hard to fix this. Granted, you need access to a large horizontal boring mill, but why can the holes be bored out and a steel bushing (aka DOM tube) be pressed into the holes?

Just curious from a mechanical point of view.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


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 Post subject: Re: CyZ #12/D&RG 433/Colorado Central 71 information?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5261
Location: southeastern USA
These holes are reamed to a fit after setting the parts up in true alignment in all 3 dimensions for a tapered hole to accept a driven-in tapered bolt. Yes, they do loosen up after decades of hard use - also the keys which fit in between the frame rails and saddle casting which are also driven in a fit space to take up slack. If the boiler is off the frame, you may be able to effect a repair depending on the amount of remaining meat to work with........ but it's better to disassemble the frame (since every interface fit will be working pretty well by this time) and make everything smaller inside and do the ream-to-fit thing again with new tapered bolts like original.

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