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Renewing Chalky Faded Paint
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40650
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Author:  R L Musser [ Wed May 03, 2017 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

TrainDetainer,

We tried the straight Allback linseed oil paint on our combine. The biggest problem was the paint dried to a dull finish. To combat that, we used the linseed oil varnish and it looked great. Unfortunately, and without warning, the varnish took on the "alligator skin" look over a period of about 2 - 3 weeks. It evidently dried out and "shrank". The only thing we could do then was to put on the raw oil to bring back a little of the shine, but the alligator surface stayed. We have since gone back to the acrylic latex on the cars.

Rick

Author:  TrainDetainer [ Wed May 03, 2017 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Thanks Rick. I looked at the shop updates that included the combine - it says 'paint touch up' - and although it looks like a customarily Strasburg-thorough job it looks like most of the previous paint remained. Was that paint a barrier paint, maybe even the acrylic latex you reverted to? If so I would have expected a worse result than just alligator skin from the linseed oil paint. I'd think that full on linseed oil paint and varnish covering would only really work on raw/bare wood since the advantage of the linseed oil base is that it bonds by soaking into the wood. No soak, no bond, so shrinking of outer layers would be expected. Also, how many coats of varnish and how much drying time and prep between coats? Just asking for info, not criticizing. I've had no problems with Allback on fresh bare wood other than a little bleed through from pine knots if not enough primer coats were used. Never had good results with putting anything but latex over latex, and that doesn't always work out the greatest either with the newer paints. Was always taught you can put latex over oil, but not oil over latex.

Author:  R L Musser [ Thu May 04, 2017 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

TrainDetainer,

That was actually a “full” paint job, but included some experiments and that included the linseed oil paint. The paint on the southwest side of the baggage door was water based Imron. We also caulked the v-groove joints of the siding in a 10 foot section. There were a couple of sections with new siding, siding that was stripped to bare wood, but most of the siding was just scraped and sanded. Everything under the linseed oil paint got primed with linseed oil primer.
Some weeks before, we had done some siding mock-ups with bare wood, and putting on the acrylic latex first before the linseed oil paint was applied to test the adhesion. We actually used both a scraper and sand paper to see if the paint stuck to the old paint with good results. The problem ended up not being the paint as much as the varnish. We only used one coat of varnish.

Rick

Author:  Les Beckman [ Sun May 28, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

To Kelly Anderson -

At Hoosier Valley yesterday, we decided to give the procedure you mentioned in the first entry in this thread, a try. Basically we followed the first 3 steps as you outlined (like the Strasburg, we have not yet done the 4th step). Our Pullman Troop Sleeper #7256 looked quite similar to Strasburg's P&R #10. The results of our efforts are shown in the attached photo. We shall see how the car holds up.


Les

Attachments:
Memorial Day weekend 5-27-17 at HVRM 002.JPG
Memorial Day weekend 5-27-17 at HVRM 002.JPG [ 257.17 KiB | Viewed 1917 times ]

Author:  Howard P. [ Mon May 29, 2017 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Les,

That looks really good. What was the original paint (mfg and type)?

How did your crew apply the linseed oil soap, long handled brushes or hand-held rags? Any additional tips to offer on this process?

Thanks,

Howard P.
(thinking of a couple of CNR coaches for this treatment)

Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue May 30, 2017 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Howard P. wrote:
Les,

That looks really good. What was the original paint (mfg and type)?

How did your crew apply the linseed oil soap, long handled brushes or hand-held rags? Any additional tips to offer on this process?

Thanks,

Howard P.
(thinking of a couple of CNR coaches for this treatment)


Howard -

To answer your SECOND question, we used long handled brushes to get to the upper portions and hand brushes for the areas below the windows. As for the original paint, I'll have to check and get back to you on that.

Additional tips? We found that the "Dry wipe of the surface" mentioned in Step 3, left slight marks, and decided to just omit that effort since the surface was dry by that time anyway. BTW, the ends of the car were not really faded as they were not in the direct sunlight, but we decided to apply the raw linseed oil to them (step 2) to match the rest of the car. We did not do Step 1 for those ends. In the photo attached, Lars Henderson is up on the ladder with Tom Rainford doing the lower section on one end of the car.

Les

Attachments:
Memorial Day weekend 5-27-17 at HVRM 003.JPG
Memorial Day weekend 5-27-17 at HVRM 003.JPG [ 292.55 KiB | Viewed 1803 times ]

Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed May 31, 2017 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Howard -

I asked the guy at the museum that was involved in the repainting of the Troop Sleeper (as part of an Eagle Scout Project) and he stated that the paint was secured from Sherwin-Williams, although he doesn't recall the exact brand name. He says that "it was made by Sherwin-Williams from our color match and was the only oil based exterior paint still sold by them."

We did one other thing that Kelly did not mention was done when they repainted P&R # 10 at Strasburg, although perhaps they did it without so stating. We decided that we should get rid of the dust and grime before we actually started the process, so we used a power washer (water only) to give the car a quick cleaning. We then started Step 1 after the water had dried.

Les

Author:  M Secco [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Will this system work for a heavily oxidized but formerly bright yellow painted car ?

Author:  Les Beckman [ Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

M Secco wrote:
Will this system work for a heavily oxidized but formerly bright yellow painted car ?


No idea, but if you try it, let us know how it works out!

Les

Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Another "test" of this technique is reported from the Texas State RR:

https://www.facebook.com/TexasStateRR/p ... 3303598953

BEFORE:

Image

AFTER:

Image

Author:  rmne1887 [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

This product has been used in equipment world for many years.

https://dakotashine.com

Author:  crij [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

The places that have finished a car with the Strasburg/Viking method, what was the final cost to do your car, for supplies?

Looks like the Dakota Shine would be about $800 (1100 sq ft) for a 60' coach (assuming 8 foot average of paint x 60 foot long side x 2 sides = 960 sq feet, plus ends & vestibules) assuming no discount at point of sale. Anyone purchased and used the Dakota Shine? Are the prices on the website the suggested or average purchase price? How long does the finish last, couple of years or only long enough to sell the equipment?

Thanks,
Rich C.

Author:  robertmacdowell [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

If I saw a 2-part urethane get chalky like that, my first reaction would be to find out what went wrong, as I would not expect that. I have seen it, on a door at Rio Vista Jct that gets very punishing sun. If the paint is not having rust or primer punch-through, my inclination would be to scuff-sand the surface and paint one more coat of reduced-to-the-max coat of the same paint, and expect a good decade out of that treatment. I occasionally have to do that when there's a drying problem like getting rained on too soon after painting.

As for linseed oil, I have been taught to be very cautious of the stuff's effect on future paint work. Obviously if you are using paints compatible-by-design with linseed oil, that's fine.

Author:  Les Beckman [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

Would be interested to know if the folks at the Texas State Railroad in their work on Café Observation car #1511 used all 4 steps as outlined by the Strasburg at the beginning of this thread. Perhaps someone from TSR could comment. Thanks.

Les

Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Renewing Chalky Faded Paint

crij wrote:
The places that have finished a car with the Strasburg/Viking method, what was the final cost to do your car, for supplies?

We paid $134 for the material we bought this spring. I don't know if we already had some ingredient in stock that was also used on that car.

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