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 Post subject: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3654
Location: Maine
Without launching a diatribe, what is the current status of the cosmetic restoration of the DL&W Mogul #565 at Steamtown, and what circumstances brought what looked like a positive, volunteer restoration to a halt? On the surface, this looked like something really good and notable at a National Park.

THIS IS NOT TO BECOME A STEAMTOWN BASH!

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Wed May 17, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 187
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38135&p=233381&hilit=565#p233381

When I was in Scranton last summer, the pilot was still outside on the flat car, as it has been for many years.


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DLW 565 Pilot August 2016.jpeg
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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 47
Truly a shame and turn of events that left me completely disgusted. Prior to 26 returning to service, this was the most positive restoration effort to be undertaken at Steamtown within my memory. Now it just continues to sit. Are all the existing parts (besides the pilot) still at least grouped together and accounted for? I hope that whatever problems existed with the interim project leader, while Steve was in the Middle East, in no way impeded the progress of this project.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Vt
I was there several weeks ago and 565 sits where it has sat for years. A number of parts that seem to be for it sit with it, including parts for the pony truck and wheel set. At least it is inside, out of the weather in the heated roundhouse. A sad case of a bureaucrat interfering with progress.

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Remember...some of the scariest words in the English language.....Hi I'm from the federal gummit and I'm here to help you..................

Sad but true. IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8265
Location: Baltimore, MD
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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:00 am
Posts: 168
Location: Philadelphia, Pa.
It's really not that big of a can of worms so much as it is red tape. It's pretty simple. Somebody in the group pestered somebody at the park over something simple. They were kindly asked to stop because his workload was very high and locating the requested blueprint would be very time consuming as they had not been cataloged as of yet (he was also asked to volunteer to sort things out since he boasted he could do it better). He persisted and then it turns out that a vital survey that should have been done 20 years ago is missing so work must stop. The only person that can complete this survey is the same person that was pestered so that sets the priority on how quickly it gets done. Here we are three or four years later and thus far to the best of my knowledge, a Section 106 survey has not been completed.

Could work resume someday? Sure. Just not by this group of people. Most of us have moved on with our lives. I'm sure if another group that had their ducks in nice straight rows, something could happen.

The historical value of the 565 is not lost at Steamtown. It's significance to Scranton is well known. It is in very good hands there. It's indoors with all of its known parts in storage as opposed to scattered about the park when things first started. When work stopped we were ready to paint the lead truck and then install it once we had a few more parts made. For now, it sits next to the locomotive in the roundhouse. Sooner or later, cooler heads will prevail and the 565 will get the attention it deserves.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:16 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8265
Location: Baltimore, MD
I have been told that allegations were made online that a certain few parts (specifically, the throttle valve and an air compressor) have "disappeared" along with a certain individual. I'm not buying this, but it's at least plausible. If anyone "up there" is in a position to refute or deny said allegations ("They're both right over on that pallet....."), it would be helpful.....


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:00 am
Posts: 168
Location: Philadelphia, Pa.
Quote:
I have been told that allegations were made online


Everything online is true.

The throttle valve and an air pump are two very random and large items. Last I knew, the throttle valve was in a storage bin just off the roundhouse and the air pump was I believe in the basement of the Archive building which if you're ever able to take a tour of, is a very interesting building.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:52 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8265
Location: Baltimore, MD
I am fully aware of the average veracity of the internet, which is why I phrased it in that manner. I was literally told about those allegations (supposedly that a past volunteer whose name we shy away from here absconded with them) yesterday while talking about that project with someone else who explores more of the "stupid corners" of the internet than I do.

But, of course, the skeptic/cynic in me can be so jaundiced as to say "And when was the last 'time you knew'? How often are people checking the storage locations?" [smiley face]


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:13 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:00 am
Posts: 168
Location: Philadelphia, Pa.
.....as for that guy, I try to forget I ever met him. He also tried getting me involved with that quarry switcher he saw sticking out of the water during a drought but magically submerged itself to a depth of 300 feet once I told him I was a certified scuba diver and would be willing to take a look.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:40 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 187
Mr. Mitchell - Can of worms. It seems all steam restorations are a can of worms. Nothing changes except the can and the worms. Good if you are goin' fishin' though.

Rereading afboone's post, the parts for this loco were all over the site, mixed in with other parts, and not properly/accurately inventoried. So any allegations of theft of parts that had not been inventoried or could not be confirmed as belonging to 565 would be dubious at best. There was one person up in Scranton that alleged theft against several folks at different times. It was usually when he was badmouthing them otherwise and it was added on as to prove his point. Perhaps that is where this tale came from.

ns2110 - Afboone's post describes a group that was very aware of the resource challenges the Park Service was trying to cope with at the time. He details how the group volunteered to take on extra paperwork to keep the project moving and to ease the work loads of Park Service personnel. Makes me doubt that any of them would act in a way that did not take these resource limitations into account. So it is probably Just Talk.

Mr. Glueck - Scranton is a very political place as is the Park Service. According to my conversations with the late Bob Patterson - the gentleman who busted butt to recover as many pieces of 565 as he could - 565 was a hot potato from the moment it (or at least 80% of it) arrived. This project was Kip Hagen's way of making things right with regards to 565. Some people's pet project is another person's additional work. Once the loco was stabilized and almost all known parts had been moved inside, the group became expendable in the eyes of those who did not want it there to begin with. If Kip had not left this earth all too soon, he would have prevailed by navigating the project though the storm and 565 would now be a very much-needed Park Service historic preservation success story.

I can not see this thread heading anywhere constructive to preservation and any further speculation that puts the Park Service or specific individuals in a bad light would likely get this thread locked.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 47
At least it's better off now than it had been in a very long time, but it could and should be so much more. Just had an interesting thought-had the restoration undertaken for Morris County Central operation been completed, I wonder if it would currently be on display in Whippany with the other surviving MCC engines. Who knows?? Although an oil burning "Road of Anthracite" engine just doesn't seem right.


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3654
Location: Maine
My questions have been answered. Unless administration deems otherwise, locking the thread is good with me.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: DL&W #565 Status and inquiry?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 699
If it's just a matter of a missing air pump and/or throttle valve, it's a non-issue as far as parts go. Both were considered generic, consumable parts and probably were replaced many times during the locomotive's service life.


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