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 Post subject: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:21 pm 

Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 2
While working on re-coating the inside of SS&S #6's tender tank (an 1891 3' gauge Baldwin 2-6-0), we stumbled across a couple of rivet holes that had been plug welded a long time ago. They are in exactly the right place for an Extra Order tank builder's plate judging from pictures of other engines with extra order tanks- this is not surprising, as we've known for some time that it has an extra order tender tank, we just have practically no information about it.

The discovery of the Extra Order builder's plate rivet holes was followed by the discovery of a stamp found on the right side water leg close to the top of the grab iron. The stamp reads 13-530 (I believe). I'm not sure if this has any relation to the extra order tank order.

If anyone has any information about what this stamp means or any other information about its Extra Order tank, I'd love to hear it.

Ultimately, I'd like to figure out what number and date is supposed to be on the plate that should be on the tender. I went to DeGolyer's online extra order databases to see if there's any record of 6's XO tender, but they don't have any records new enough. We do know for sure that SS&S #4 (6's sister, but from 1888) got an Extra Order tender tank in May 1914, and the XO plate number is 16584. The 6 got its Extra Order tender tank before being sold to Argent Lumber Company in October 1927 judging from early pictures of 6 at Argent.

Thanks everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2097
I find that very curious as maybe some extra tender orders may not have been obviously documented, given how N&W would swap around tenders, often for a bigger version. Getting an extra tender would sound smart in the event of any issues with the original tender, or circumstances. Tenders usually don't get the same "treatment" as the engine like a builders plate but mey get some kind of identification...somehow, like this punched in number here, so here we go with a curious mystery of extra order tender practices.


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 421
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
dinwitty wrote:
Tenders usually don't get the same "treatment" as the engine like a builders plate but mey get some kind of identification


Baldwin extra-order tenders definitely carried their own builder's plates. From photos I've seen (e.g. SR&RL 2-6-2 No. 18's replacement tender, to cite one prominent narrow gauge example -- see photo below), it was a single plate in the standard Baldwin style, placed on the engineer's side of the tank above the grab iron, just as the original poster describes.

-Philip Marshall

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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:21 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 432
The Northern Pacific Ry. had a complete set of ICC account cards just for tenders, they were regularly swapped around.

NPRHA has these on microfilm.

The NP even bought locomotives with the wrong tender when they needed tenders, I seem to recall a builders photo of a articulated with a switcher tender.

The 3 NP locos at MTM do not have their original tenders.

The NP tenders all have class and number plates.

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:10 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
There were also tenders ordered with locomotives that were not intended to run with them in service. Examples that come to mind are 0-8-0s for both the Erie and the C&O that came with large road tenders (looking something like what you would find behind an NKP 2-8-4); these tenders were meant to replace smaller tanks on road engines such as 2-8-2s, and the switchers would get the former small road tenders, or other tenders.

Another example, though not quite in the same category, would be the last steam engines built by Alco. These were the 2-8-4s built for the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (NYC associated line) in 1948. Alco at the time was very much on the way to converting to diesel production, and the tender shop was already no longer available, so the tenders were ordered from Lima. The tenders, like the SR&RL example above, carried a Lima diamond plate in about the same location.

This plate is visible in the photo of 9401 below, a red diamond on the tender collar. Also visible is the color Alco delivered the engines in--a dark olive green!

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/berkshir ... 2-001a.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:00 pm 

Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 2
Just to show what I was talking about in my original post better, heere's SS&S #4 (6's sister) in 1920 with the extra order plate on the tender. The tender plate reads 16584, May 1914. I might note that this picture is mirrored; this is actually the fireman's side. Does anyone know when the Sandy River prairie got its extra order tender or what number the plate is? I can't make it out from the photo.

But back to my original question...if anyone has any leads on what the "13-530" stamp on engine #6's tender means in relation to the extra order (if there is any relation), that would be be amazing.

Thanks!
KHO


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 421
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
SR&RL No. 18 is supposed to have received its extra order tender when it was converted from a 2-6-0 to a 2-6-2 in 1/1916. The work on the engine itself was done in the MEC shops, but the new tender was provided by Baldwin. I haven't been able to find the construction number of the tender, but the engine was Baldwin c/n 13733, built 9/1893.

Other SR&RL 2-6-2s that are supposed to have had Baldwin extra order tenders include Nos. 16 and 24, but No. 18 was the one I happened to have a picture of.

I hadn't realized that the plates would be on both sides, but of course!

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: Extra Order Tenders
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:47 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 907
If it helps any -- and I think given the chronology it might -- I think the 'stamp' in the picture starts with 18- and not "13-". As such I think it may well be the actual order number.

_________________
R.M.Ellsworth


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