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 Post subject: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 709
Been awfully quiet here since the management changes a few months ago.

Any news, progress, regression, status quo, etc. from this tiny corner of the KY hills?

Last I read, new management swept in, spent a lot of money, made a lot of plans, then was unceremoniously booted out and replaced by the previous management.

Would at least expect some legal actions to be taking place or contemplated. But meanwhile, is the railroad even operating??


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:42 pm 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 420
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
Lets assume for a minute someone did have first hand knowledge of what was going on up there. The first time you present anything more involved that "it was a beautiful day in Stearns", a self appointed "God of Steam" is going to get his drawers in a wad and a "God of RYPN" will come along and threaten moderation of the topic either deleting it or locking it.

I don't see much point in it and doubt there will be many takers. Your results may vary.

ETA
Not doing it "the way we do it on the west coast"...


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:24 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1043
Location: Youngstown, OH
You just summed up the two main reasons why RYPN is now only a shadow of its former self. Many people that I talk to back channel have no interest in posting anything because of self appointed blowhards dominating conversations, personal attacks and the moderator locking or deleting what he doesn't like based upon his own set of arbitrary rules.

There is no formal structure to RYPN. It needs updated badly and it needs much functionality restored. I offered to fund a bunch of those improvements and provide it with a secure future but those offers have met with deaf ears. So it languishes and fades even further into irrelevancy. People now post preservation news to Facebook where its here today and impossible to find tomorrow. We had a good thing here.

We are in the middle of creating a "Black Hole" of railroad preservation. In the past there were organizational newsletters and the NRHS annual issues that chronicled preservation activities. Then for a while we had L&RP. Then the internet took over and instead of chronicling our accomplishments on paper we started doing do on Internet forums and websites. Now many are doing it on Facebook. So in another decade when people want to look back at the 2010s and wonder what did the movement accomplish in that decade, where will they look? If the RYPN archives remains stable people can search that, but as this forum becomes irrelevant it becomes even less useful as a record of our movement.

Preserving the history of the railroad preservation movement is just as important as preserving the history of the railroads themselves. We have a tool that can help make that happen, if we only would use it to its fullest extent. Being content to let RYPN just exist in this semi permanent state of limbo is not doing any of us any good in the long run.

_________________
Rick Rowlands
Steel Industry Preservationist, Narrow Gauge Railroader and ALCOhaulic


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:01 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:05 pm
Posts: 12
To answer your question Lincoln, they're still running exactly the same as they've always been. The cars are just this weird green/white color scheme now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JASt9icUW9I


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2438
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Rick Rowlands wrote:
You just summed up the two main reasons why RYPN is now only a shadow of its former self. Many people that I talk to back channel have no interest in posting anything because of self appointed blowhards dominating conversations, personal attacks and the moderator locking or deleting what he doesn't like based upon his own set of arbitrary rules.

There is no formal structure to RYPN. It needs updated badly and it needs much functionality restored. I offered to fund a bunch of those improvements and provide it with a secure future but those offers have met with deaf ears. So it languishes and fades even further into irrelevancy. People now post preservation news to Facebook where its here today and impossible to find tomorrow. We had a good thing here.

We are in the middle of creating a "Black Hole" of railroad preservation. In the past there were organizational newsletters and the NRHS annual issues that chronicled preservation activities. Then for a while we had L&RP. Then the internet took over and instead of chronicling our accomplishments on paper we started doing do on Internet forums and websites. Now many are doing it on Facebook. So in another decade when people want to look back at the 2010s and wonder what did the movement accomplish in that decade, where will they look? If the RYPN archives remains stable people can search that, but as this forum becomes irrelevant it becomes even less useful as a record of our movement.

Preserving the history of the railroad preservation movement is just as important as preserving the history of the railroads themselves. We have a tool that can help make that happen, if we only would use it to its fullest extent. Being content to let RYPN just exist in this semi permanent state of limbo is not doing any of us any good in the long run.


Rick, don't go around making sense like that. You are bound to get this thread deleted or locked.

I too have offered help in reincorporating RYPN as a corporate entity and providing other protections to the moderators/staff and posters from frivilous litigation threats. I feel that the moderators act like they do partly because a lack of protection. My offers have gone unanswered, and yet the forum continues to diminish in quality.

The water is over the pilot house, the collapsible lifeboats have been washed away, and the moderators are standing on deck proclaiming that nothing is wrong.

_________________
--
David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 709
parktrains wrote:
To answer your question Lincoln, they're still running exactly the same as they've always been. The cars are just this weird green/white color scheme now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JASt9icUW9I



Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:12 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 384
Quote:
Last I read, new management swept in, spent a lot of money, made a lot of plans, then was unceremoniously booted out and replaced by the previous management.

Would at least expect some legal actions to be taking place or contemplated. But meanwhile, is the railroad even operating??

The RR is operating with the old management in place. The new management did spend $$ and is now out and is not happy about all of this.

Quote:
Lets assume for a minute someone did have first hand knowledge of what was going on up there. The first time you present anything more involved that "it was a beautiful day in Stearns", a self appointed "God of Steam" is going to get his drawers in a wad and a "God of RYPN" will come along and threaten moderation of the topic either deleting it or locking it.

Wasatch has packed their tools and left town, leaving behind a very unfinished project, and many unpaid invoices, which they are not happy about.
(Reporting the News, not attacking anyone, not looking to be moderated)

Quote:
To answer your question Lincoln, they're still running exactly the same as they've always been. The cars are just this weird green/white color scheme now.

The new owner began an extensive car maintenance and upgrade program, and all of the cars were in some stage of teardown when the old management booted them. Thus, only two cars are completed, with new windows, interior upgrades, and new paint. The old (original) windows were problematic, as they were very heavy Lexan as required by FRA in the immediate post 911 era when the cars were built, and did not have any FRA exemption from the glazing rule even though they were wood body cars. Apparently now the glazing issue has been resolved and "regular" windows can be used. The RR is only operating with these two cars, until other cars can be brought back in service.


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:16 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 384
Car photos from their FB page.


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BSFSRY cars 2.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 12:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 4992
parktrains wrote:
To answer your question Lincoln, they're still running exactly the same as they've always been. The cars are just this weird green/white color scheme now.



Actually, I've seen a LOT worse paint schemes than this dark green/white trim paint scheme.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 709
[quote="Mark Jordan"]
Wasatch has packed their tools and left town, leaving behind a very unfinished project, and many unpaid invoices, which they are not happy about.
(Reporting the News, not attacking anyone, not looking to be moderated)[quote]"

Are you saying Wasatch left town owing money to someone or some entity?


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 96
Lincoln Penn wrote:
Mark Jordan wrote:
Wasatch has packed their tools and left town, leaving behind a very unfinished project, and many unpaid invoices, which they are not happy about.
(Reporting the News, not attacking anyone, not looking to be moderated)
Quote:
"

Are you saying Wasatch left town owing money to someone or some entity?

I'm pretty sure that he meant that - Wasatch are the ones owed the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 384
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that he meant that - Wasatch are the ones owed the money.

Wasatch is looking for payment for work performed on the loco project. Wasatch is owed money. No pay = No work.


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:39 pm
Posts: 2
Mr. Jordan's answers are not accurate with regard to the K and T.

"The RR is operating with the old management in place. The new management did spend $$ and is now out and is not happy about all of this. "

No--new management was hired after discussions with the people who were attempting to take over the railroad failed. The new manager was in place and got the railroad going in about 30 days with opening day on April 8th. Regarding "new management", they were never the new management--this was covered in the local paper. Ridership is up about 15%.

"Wasatch has packed their tools and left town, leaving behind a very unfinished project, and many unpaid invoices, which they are not happy about.
(Reporting the News, not attacking anyone, not looking to be moderated)"

Part of this is true: the fact that Wasatch is off the property and a very unfinished project. Regarding unpaid invoices, as a general statement, if you don't work you don't get paid. And, if you don't get paid, you don't work. At this point, only one thing is certain, neither side is happy and it's going to take a lot of time and effort to sort it out.

"The new owner began an extensive car maintenance and upgrade program, and all of the cars were in some stage of teardown when the old management booted them. Thus, only two cars are completed, with new windows, interior upgrades, and new paint. "

Again, the fact is that the cars were not finished with their upgrades, nor were they even close when negotiations ended. The direction to finish was given by the new management with financing provided by local people. Nor were all of the cars in some stage of tear down. New management would not allow them to run because of their deteriorated condition.

"Wasatch is looking for payment for work performed on the loco project. Wasatch is owed money. No pay = No work."

See above.


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 Post subject: Re: Big South Fork Scenic/Kentucky & Tennessee
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 384
In the true debate and of Stearns and RYPN, here we go! (I'm joking, but........)

Quote:
Mr. Jordan's answers are not accurate with regard to the K and T.

"The RR is operating with the old management in place. The new management did spend $$ and is now out and is not happy about all of this. "

No--new management was hired after discussions with the people who were attempting to take over the railroad failed. The new manager was in place and got the railroad going in about 30 days with opening day on April 8th. Regarding "new management", they were never the new management--this was covered in the local paper. Ridership is up about 15%.

Yes, new manager hired. "Old" or "Existing" management is meant as McCreary Co Heritage Foundation, whom the new manager is working for.

Quote:
"Wasatch has packed their tools and left town, leaving behind a very unfinished project, and many unpaid invoices, which they are not happy about.
(Reporting the News, not attacking anyone, not looking to be moderated)"

Part of this is true: the fact that Wasatch is off the property and a very unfinished project. Regarding unpaid invoices, as a general statement, if you don't work you don't get paid. And, if you don't get paid, you don't work. At this point, only one thing is certain, neither side is happy and it's going to take a lot of time and effort to sort it out.

Understood & agreed.

Quote:
"The new owner began an extensive car maintenance and upgrade program, and all of the cars were in some stage of teardown when the old management booted them. Thus, only two cars are completed, with new windows, interior upgrades, and new paint. "

Again, the fact is that the cars were not finished with their upgrades, nor were they even close when negotiations ended. The direction to finish was given by the new management with financing provided by local people. Nor were all of the cars in some stage of tear down. New management would not allow them to run because of their deteriorated condition.

Yes, understood. Only two cars are complete at the beginning of the season. The balance are still undergoing repairs.

Quote:
"Wasatch is looking for payment for work performed on the loco project. Wasatch is owed money. No pay = No work."

See above.


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