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 Post subject: Re: Another (The Last?) Word on 757 and PHMC from PA Auditor
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:05 am
Posts: 24
Location: Quebec
OK stop now.

This topic is only for get down the good news

Bellevue is the best place for 757 that it!! And the museum of prr can focus now to preserved the PRR collection (roundhouse project, locomotives restoration etc)

Don't worry be happy loll


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 Post subject: Re: Another (The Last?) Word on 757 and PHMC from PA Auditor
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:19 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 907
Quote:
"
Just because YOU declare the Metroliner "unwanted" does not make it so (as with the 757). The Metroliner has several significant ties to the Commonwealth, the PRR, Penn Central, passenger rail advancements, etc."


Hey, ya think??? It might be important??? Relevant to Pennsylvania???

I need to use the [sarc] tag so people don't miss the point, sometimes. I am not the one who thinks the Metroliner is 'unwanted'; it's pretty obvious from its present condition if not from discussions in a number of prior posts here and elsewhere. Personally I find it worse than reprehensible that no one is caring for a significant effort at high-speed passenger transportation ... but then, I don't live near Pennsylvania now and can't take the time to spearhead funding and then restoration for the thing as it deserves. On the other hand, I certainly can say that it should go where some enthusiasm for it appears to have been expressed, and that it would be 'nice' to see if anyone can broach the subject of a reasonable trade for 4700 since no one else seems to be expressing enthusiasm for it where it is.

I don't remember now what the 'other thing' was but someone here was proposing it as part of a proposal for a 4700 trade years ago, here. The issue is not so much whether items of clear relevance to the museum's mission shouldn't be deaccessioned so much as it is -- as this thread started out concerned with -- whether something not being cared for properly by a museum 'should' be deaccessioned if something even more relevant or valuable to its mission might be obtained thereby.

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 Post subject: Re: Another (The Last?) Word on 757 and PHMC from PA Auditor
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8399
Location: Baltimore, MD
Overmod wrote:
. I am not the one who thinks the Metroliner is 'unwanted'; it's pretty obvious from its present condition if not from discussions in a number of prior posts here and elsewhere. . . . The issue is not so much whether items of clear relevance to the museum's mission shouldn't be deaccessioned so much as it is -- as this thread started out concerned with -- whether something not being cared for properly by a museum 'should' be deaccessioned if something even more relevant or valuable to its mission might be obtained thereby.


If this is the criteria in question, then PRR E6s 460 should have been sent away ten years ago, when holes were all the way through the tender and cab.

And they also need to get rid of the DD1 (hey, didn't some museum say they got some strange Italian electric because they couldn't get an American driveshaft electric?), the PRR M1, the PRR L1s. the obviously-duplicate-and-not-representative GG1 4800...........


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 Post subject: Re: Another (The Last?) Word on 757 and PHMC from PA Auditor
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:35 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 907
This keeps going into straw arguments of dubious worth.

Why would RRMPA deaccession crown-jewel 460, famous not only in its own right but as PRR management's favorite locomotive? Or 4800, a far more important locomotive than the 4700 we'd be trying to retrieve from St. Louis? This even before we get to the second half of what I actually said, which is 'deaccession only in order to accession something of greater importance'. What would you propose is more significant than 460, or 4800?

Over and over I have read that current management doesn't particularly want the Metroliner, doesn't want to put scarce money into it, etc. If actions speak louder than words, the current storage location and state of the Metroliner do plenty of talking. While I don't pretend to speak for the museum, it does not appear to me that the MP-85 is getting any better care than 757. I would be interested in hearing directly from museum personnel exactly how much they value the artifact, whether they have any plans for it, whether they would reject or embrace a quiet trade for an asset they would probably confirm is more significant to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Another (The Last?) Word on 757 and PHMC from PA Auditor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8399
Location: Baltimore, MD
Overmod wrote:
Over and over I have read that current management doesn't particularly want the Metroliner, doesn't want to put scarce money into it, etc. If actions speak louder than words, the current storage location and state of the Metroliner do plenty of talking. While I don't pretend to speak for the museum, it does not appear to me that the MP-85 is getting any better care than 757. I would be interested in hearing directly from museum personnel exactly how much they value the artifact, whether they have any plans for it, whether they would reject or embrace a quiet trade for an asset they would probably confirm is more significant to them.


I'd like to see where you're "reading" this. Official PHMC documents? Editorials in the RRMPa "Milepost"? Self-appointed armchair restorationists on the interwebs?

For the record, a previous director/curator not only approved the acquisition of the Metroliner 860, but joined a bunch of guys (yours truly included) to retrieve a truckload and several carloads of spare parts (original seat cushions, pantograph, cafe equipment, horns, etc.) from the Amtrak scrapline in Wilmington. And back then they were being roundly condemned for the deplorable condition of 460, 3750, etc.--they just "left them to rot in the rain, so obviously they don't care about them....."

460 had to wait for its turn in the Restoration Facility. Other locos and cars will follow it. I mean, hell, they gave a first-class spit-and-polish paint job to a "brick" (the E44), after all.

Right now, one would be extremely hard-pressed to come up with a significant railroads-of-Pennsylvania artifact that the Museum should justify "trading" for, provided the Museum is even allowed to offer, say, a PRR loco for it. To be perfectly honest, the objective I've heard in "cracker-barrel" talk for ages is not another PRR electric or 4483, but rather any humdrum short-line steamer or critter with true Pa. provenance--and right now the best potential example out there is Huntingdon & Broad Top 38, and I'm not complaining about where that is now, and I doubt the current owner would take a non-operable PRR 2-8-0 or whatever for it. B&LE 643? Get the owner to accept a trade, get 643 to Leaman Place, and then we'll talk.

My point is that "current management" shall pass as well. The 50th anniversary of the Metroliners and Amtrak are both approaching. And stoic old-guard management ticking off their potential heirs by prioritizing all the oldest stuff while ignoring the stuff the younger guys have experienced and can relate to is a chronic problem in this avocation. And if we're calling this fifty-something guy the "younger guard," then you're doomed to extinction by irrelevance.


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