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 Post subject: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Peninsula Line MP 34.7
does anyone know who sells 16# to 20# compromise joint bars, checked major suppliers and no one has them, not even listed in there catalogs.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:53 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 473
Location: Wall, NJ
For that size rail, you could probably just make your own.

But, with that said, have you tried the park train suppliers? Chance Rides comes to mind. There's a good FB page for park trains and also a yahoo group. Might try posting your question there as well.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Apple Valley, Minnesota
JR May wrote:
For that size rail, you could probably just make your own.


I'd say that's spot on. I seriously doubt there's a market for this kind of item.

Our Museum just completed a short length of track from a 90# switch into our new "speeder shed." The 30# rail needed a compromise joint to the 90# rail. Our crack shop guys made those along with joint bars to connect the 30# stock. Get some 1/2-inch steel and cut it to size, or have a machine shop do the work. I'm assuming that with such small rails we're not talking about heavy loads or anything over 10mph.

Thanks!

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Jim Vaitkunas
Minnesota Streetcar Museum
www.trolleyride.org


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Peninsula Line MP 34.7
Thanks for the input, making our own my be the only ticket. as 16# is no longer rolled we are switching to 20# to make the repairs to our track.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
Harmer Steel, Portland, OR. (503) 286-3691

They do a lot of work with mine rail and they've even done some park train projects. If anyone knows where to get them, they will.


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Peninsula Line MP 34.7
we ordered rail from Harmer Steel they could not find compromise joints


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:47 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:50 am
Posts: 72
Joint bars for rail that small do not provide any support, just alignment. You could grind away material from the larger size bar and weld fill the old holes and then drill to match the smaller section. You may need to build up some part of the inside of the joint bar to line up the gauge side of the rail heads.


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
We used to have them made from plate steel and cut with a water jet machine. We'd match the fishing on normal bars on both sides, and put a bit of an S curve into it rather than square corners. It was standard practice on industry spurs back in the day, but they certainly don't pass muster with the FRA. Of course if you're joining 16# to 20#, I'm going to guess you're not under FRA jurisdiction. :)


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Pittsburgh
"It was standard practice on industry spurs back in the day, but they certainly don't pass muster with the FRA."

I wouldn't be so certain about that. FRA regulations are surprisingly loose about how joint bars are fabricated.

ยง213.121 Rail joints.
(a) Each rail joint, insulated joint, and compromise joint shall be of a structurally sound design and dimensions for the rail on which it is applied.
(b) If a joint bar on Classes 3 through 5 track is cracked, broken, or because of wear allows excessive vertical movement of either rail when all bolts are tight, it shall be replaced.
(c) If a joint bar is cracked or broken between the middle two bolt holes it shall be replaced.
(d) In the case of conventional jointed track, each rail shall be bolted with at least two bolts at each joint in Classes 2 through 5 track, and with at least one bolt in Class 1 track.
(e) In the case of continuous welded rail track, each rail shall be bolted with at least two bolts at each joint.
(f) Each joint bar shall be held in position by track bolts tightened to allow the joint bar to firmly support the abutting rail ends and to allow longitudinal movement of the rail in the joint to accommodate expansion and contraction due to temperature variations. When no-slip, joint-to-rail contact exists by design, the requirements of this paragraph do not apply. Those locations when over 400 feet in length, are considered to be continuous welded rail track and shall meet all the requirements for continuous welded rail track prescribed in this part.
(g) No rail shall have a bolt hole which is torch cut or burned in Classes 2 through 5 track. For Class 2 track, this paragraph (g) is applicable September 21, 1999.
(h) No joint bar shall be reconfigured by torch cutting in Classes 3 through 5 track.


/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:32 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 367
You could also try Ohio Valley Trackwork in Pomeroy, OH.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: source for 16# to 20# compromise joint bars
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:44 pm
Posts: 23
Rob Gardner wrote:
You could also try Ohio Valley Trackwork in Pomeroy, OH.

Rob Gardner


We've used OVT (Bidwell, OH I thought) for various custom-built trackwork including comp bars.
Their stuff is good quality and not expensive. These bars will be made from plate stock, milled
to match the head and toe angle of the rail, with a sharp vertical offset, i.e. these are just fish plates.
Should be quite suitable for this application.


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