It's like owning something like jewelry, coins or stamps. The only people who make money on it are the dealers. I am really glad I never was drawn to collecting a bunch of "stuff". Even then I still have more than I should. I think those who are comparing him to Dick Jensen may be right. If you can find a sympathetic person who connects with him in a logical way you might be able to convince him he's not looking at the situation in the correct way, but most who care about this stuff come at someone like him far too aggressively.

is the owner of the 643 also demanding 100k? Seems like such an arbitrary number...

Over the years I've heard many justifications for outrageous ideas about value including: "My Daddy paid that for it so it's worth that much" (redneck ancestor worship), "I have this much in it so it's worth more than that since I already did some disassembly" (with lost and damaged parts and no documentation), "There aren't any more so it's an antique" (no, there are more, and in better shape and not where moving it costs more than it's real worth), "I heard about another one that sold for this much" (comparing a junk tank engine to a restored road engine), and finally "I just think it must be worth that much."

Sunk funds are sunk and can't be refloated. You don't get what you paid if you paid foolishly expecting to flip for a profit. Only the scrapper will give you "fair market value" since the only real market is for the value of the reclaimed metals, and you won't like it. Locomotives are worth what they can earn doing their work - that's why the railroads bought them, not to mostly sit around, tinker with, and run occasionally for fun.

My wife's father was a ham radio operator and we cleared out a house full of obsolete and home grown electronic stuff after he died. The only rational way was to donate it all to then local radio club and wish them well......... her uncle had an axle lathe salvaged from the Norther Pacific roundhouse, but we didn't have to deal with that at least. It might have ended up in my driveway for my nieces to contend with.

A few years ago I had some work done an antique tractor. The cost was about $3k but even now the tractor is only worth maybe $1k. I understand that I'll never get my money back but having the family tractor running is worth it.

Ross, I'm interested to hear where you think 5361 could go. Any prospects on the Canadian side of the border?

There's always interest in returning one of our locomotives back to Canada. However, the almighty dollar is always the main issue. Not many places have a spare $100k to throw around, not to mention how much more it would take to get it out of where it is. We have room at the shop in Fort Erie, but not a hope in hell of moving it over there, and we have enough work to do as it is. Someone with a large bank account is needed for this, and that's about the only way it'll be moved somewhere safe.

For now the Toronto railway museum anwser first and said (I'll pass this on to our historian and management for consideration) so if you are some contact in other Canadian Museum please go

I don't think the canadian railway museum in Montreal as interested but i sending a message who know

For the price i think is very too much for history

David

Good evening folks,

I've seen a lot of comments in this thread about the alleged "$100,000.00" asking price for this locomotive, such as Mr. Rowland's critique quoted above.

I've seen a quite a few critics argue the asking price is seriously out of whack.

Why is this asking price being viewed as "arbitrary", "crazy", etc. ?

A number of years ago, in a small town in Northwest PA (in Kane, PA to be exact), I (along with quite a few other regulars who post in this forum) watched in awe as Jerry Jacobson and J. David Conrad bid on a fire-damaged, rusty Chinese-built 2-8-2 in need of a complete rebuilding. Mr. Conrad's bid was the highest when the auctioneer's gavel dropped and made the sale final.

Why am I recalling that event in this thread you ask?

The final sale price for that locomotive (VRR 3025) was around $125,000.00.

If my memory hasn't completely failed, I believe Mr. Maples successfully acquired the former H&BT 38, a much smaller 2-8-0 in equally bad shape, for around $80,000.00

The CPR 2-8-2 in Buffalo is similar in size and condition to the Valley's steam engine.
Given what the 3025 sold for, why is everyone screaming that $100,000.00 is a crazy number to ask for?

It is my understanding that the owner of the 643 believes his locomotive is worth close to 7-figures. Now that is a number I would view as unrealistic.

I will likely get myself in trouble for saying this, but I truly believe that Mr. Rowland would likely argue that his beloved 614 IS worth every bit of 7-figure price tag. Since no one (including Ross) is immortal, should we all start yelling over the fate of 614 because his estate is going to want to command a premium for the 614?

I raise this point to bring everyone attention to the obvious -- steam locomotives can command a premium price.

I would suggest that instead of waiting until the scrap company is sitting on sight with torches in hand, how about launching a campaign to save the locomotive now, instead of having to resort to a last minute rescue operation.

With respect to CPR 5361, the preservation community appears to have more than adequate warning.

Just my thoughts.

Just a thought, but wasnt that Chinese locomotive fairly "young"? Fire damaged yes, but it was also probably seen as having a longer working lifespan than some park locomotive. I would think of it like a car - older it gets the more problems it will have / cost more money in the long term. In this case it is a locomotive that has been exposed to the outdoors and is a challenge (to say the least) to get out of its current resting place which will according to some other posters cost nearly as much as the locomotive itself.

What 643 is this?

I knew B&LE #643 needed a new home, but wasn't aware that she had been sadly scrapped. Would be a real shame if that one was lost.

Read what Ross wrote again.

I hate this when someone believe i get some money in the railway preservation. Is more like a hobbie not a business. Look the 643 case (maybe the Soo 2719 too but is complicated) i like with my french accent to ask him WHY.




Thank you for your frankness but you and the Toronto Railway Museum would be the perfect fit for the 5361. She has operated in the south ontario the most part of is career.

No arguments on the examples that you cited but absent the key ingredient (a person or group with the interest and the money to make it happen), the value goes way down. At the end of the day she's only worth what someone is willing to pay for her.

Is 643 still parked with a N&W water tender? Would be a shame to loose the N&W A-tank if they scrap 643.

Robert

Quick re-cap to reality, folks. Neither 5361 nor 643 have been scrapped. There has been no date set to scrap either of these locomotives. The cases of these locomotives are unrelated. Both locomotives are highly valued by preservationists as historical artifacts and/or as potentially operating locomotives. Both locomotives are owned by private individuals who have placed a value on them which, along with transportation costs, place them out of the budgets of most preservationist and museums. The 5361 has been slated for destruction when the owner dies, if his sale price is not met. Moving the locomotive will cost almost as much as the locomotive itself.
643 is not yet under the threat of scrapping, although that is a likely fate if not purchased from the owner. Whether the owner wishes to sell 643 has not been established.

If the CPR Mikado 5361 is going to be saved, this forum is likely to get the word out first. I suggest readers and concerned parties either contact some celebrity with deep, expendable funds, or start pooling their funds, to the tune of about $200,000. These are not easily solved problems.