Ryan, also sent you an e-mail...

If a solid plan is made public to save the locomotive, I will donate toward the effort

Al Crisp here; After some calls and emails from and too CPR my contacts have been restored and strengthened last night. Dealing with them is like taking your sister to the prom. We have their ear but they are very focused on a couple other offers?? I know there is some one out there but lord knows I watched as the CT offer came up and then died. It dragged on for months and I have no doubt money was also an issue. It is the common denominator in any restoration, private or government or a combination. Getting, increasing or maintaining funding is the rub. I have plenty of personal experience here. I have worked on the Miss Canada VI restoration and every year I organize a home model train layout tour to raise money for the Salvation Army. My wife works on bigger fish and I learned a lot from her experience, building a library and couple other similar things.
That being said I am not at liberty to discuss my conversations with CPR staff,or who they are,but suffice to say it is not the janitor. I will say this, I proposed a fund matching idea for their review and at the very least an endorsement by CPR. Just like Big Brother they do know what is going on but corporations are hard to deal with. Also I do not want to open a bidding war, they like most involved think the asking is too high. Plus we need to see an end game of what is going to happen to 5361. I would hate to see it moved to safety??? only to languish on a siding somewhere. OOps that is what we have now!

So...what if CPR bids as a scrapper about twice what it's worth as scrap, then removes it intact and doesn't cut it up? Preserved, rational price.

But no one has any idea if this hypothetical scrapper bids $5,000 or $75,000. I've seen some pretty boneheaded scrappers in my day, including ones that have walked away halfway through a scrapping project because they were losing money (and stealing a lot of stuff not nailed down they weren't supposed to in the process).

We also have no idea if we get told the truth about what the scrapper supposedly offered, and NO scrapper is going to waste their time bidding on a project if they know they're just being used to set a price for someone else.

Lastly, we've already seen the old "moving price tag" game by seemingly otherwise reputable parties where, once a requested price is met, oops, the price goes up again--and again. That's when serious players turn around and walk away flipping middle digits behind them, as has essentially happened with several major preservation proposals over the decades. And then no one with any "skin in the game" cries when the loco/car/railroad/station is demolished/scrapped--they tried, but.............

Good afternoon all,

I hope everyone (U.S. residents) had a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday yesterday.

Everyone needs to take a deep breathe and recognize the obvious: This locomotive will remain in one piece until well into next year.

Folks, please look at your calendars.

The "supposed" deadline is Dec 15, 2018. This arbitrarily chosen deadline is just 10 days before Christmas. There are just 5 business days between Dec 15th and the 25th.

There are just three business days between Christmas and New Years Day.

There are just 3 business days in the first week of January.

Winter lasts a full three months in upstate NY. It gets quite cold, and will remain so until springtime.

The greater Buffalo area averages nearly 8 ft (93.4") of snowfall per year. Given recent weather patterns, the actual amount of snow that could fall might be significantly more.

In order to cut up something the size of a steam locomotive, a scrapper would need some pretty heavy duty equipment.

Machines which rely on hydraulics do not (in general) like really cold weather. Equipment, such as an excavator with a cutting tool, will not operate as efficiently as it otherwise would in the Spring or Summer.

Trying to torch cut steel in a snowstorm, or in a really cold environment, is both challenging and expensive. Fuel costs for those torches will be higher simply because the torches will require more fuel to heat the steel to sufficient cutting temps.

Snow needs to be removed from the work site in order to get the equipment to the locomotive. Snow removal adds costs.

ALL of these winter-related additional costs will be deducted from the price a scrapper will pay for the locomotive.

The owner is a longtime resident of the area. He is well aware that scrapping the locomotive in winter is NOT to his advantage. He is well aware that removing "parts" is a far greater challenge in winter.

Yet the owner sets his "supposed" deadline right before the start of winter?

Am I the only person here who sees this manufactured "crisis" for what it really is - an effort to force the preservation community to come up with his asking price by threatening to scrap a steam locomotive?

Folks, it is obvious the owner doesn't want to remain the the locomotive's caretaker anymore.

However, it is equally obvious that given the current market for steam locomotives, the owner can't sell his asset right this minute, at the price he wants for it. The threat to scrap the locomotive is his way of trying to change the economics in the marketplace.

Folks, if it were left up to me, I'd call his bluff.

AL Crisp here; I would suggest that everyone take a step back, a chill pill or two and see what unpacks. There are at least two interested parties and three if I have my way that supposedly have the money to buy it out right. One is Canadian so you know where my loyalty hangs it's hat. CPR has told me flat out they will not purchase for parts or whole thanks to the ghost of HH. However It may be more then moral support they lend to move the brute. We will see. No matter what happens the owner has told me the engine can stay there if it is bought and he will cover the rent until it is moved from the property.

That is simply not true. Buffalo goes thru many freeze/thaw cycles during a typical winter.The Southtowns suburbs of Buffalo are the area that gets the most snow. The locomotive is not in that part of the region. Heck, in most years, Syracuse gets more snow than the City of Buffalo does!You're underestimating Buffaloians.What do you think moves the blades on snowplows?Excavators work just fine in the winter, when they are used to remove snow from parking lots.Buffalo is not in the arctic circle.It's Buffalo - you can hire a guy to clear your lot with his plow-equipped pickup for $50.
I think it's just more likely that the owner is just trying do some estate planning so that the locomotive will not become a burden on the heirs.

Al Crisp here; For anyone not conversant in the weather of the Great Lakes there are some weather patterns in the Buffalo /Fort Erie area unlike anywhere else. Take a look at a map of the region large enough to show both Lakes Erie and Ontario and notice the neck of land between. Areas in the Buffalo region are subject to what is known as Lake effect snow. It can happen from almost all points of the compass due to the winds getting wound up blowing over 300 miles of open water then slamming into poor old Buffalo at the end and dumping the moisture collected. I live a hundred miles north of Toronto[mile 102 on the Newmarket Sub] and we have a snow pattern caused by lake effect too ,only from Georgian bay and lake Michigan in what are called streamers. This can make snow brutal in one place and a little up the line nothing. CNR has always stationed plows at Washago, now it is track mobile/ plow blower. If it gets too bad we are treated to Jordan spreader making some runs.
I can assure you that life goes on in this region in winter. As the writer said Buffalo goes thru a number of cycles, but no two years seem the same. As a heavy haul trucker believe me I have been out moving stuff in every thing from +40C to -40C, snow and all. The only thing I see stop is paving in winter as it make s for a dodgy surface.
OK regards the owner, yes he has health problems like most anyone in our age bracket. I have some knowledge but that is his and his alone business, as is any family or outside commitments finically or otherwise. It is counter productive to make mention or speculation about that. We are all ostensibly here to help save a good looking old steam locomotive, so lets concentrate on that please! Al Crisp MMR

Here's a YouTube video featuring recent views of 5361:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pepBKqP ... ture=share

Looks like it has been well cared for ! Nice to see that !

Kevin K.

Wow, that engine has been well taken care of.

Any news or updates from any of the "interested" parties? I know things tend to move at a snail's pace in rail preservation but curiosity is strong on this one.

some clearer facts.

I believe you are thinking of a Rubber Tired Loader. You could probably use an excavator, but with steel tracks, a 5 foot bucket (max) and a top speed of 2.5 mph it would take forever.


But 20 degrees is 20 degrees. it will take much more fuel to heat the steel up to cutting temp.


Please, most of these guys wont even clear a small residential driveway for this. To clear an area big enough to work around this locomotive could cost 10 times that easily.

Were do you live fixologist61? Obviously not near Buffalo.
Although the temperature can get down to -20F it usually hovers around the freezing mark during the day in January and there isn't always a ton of snow on the ground. Depew is just on the northern edge of the snow belt.
Buffalo doesn't come to a halt when it does get cold and there is snow on the ground. Buffalonians have learned to deal with the cold and snow when it does happen.

I live between Rochester and Buffalo so I am very familiar with the weather. This is Western NY and the only thing that closes with a little snow is the Thruway.