Al Crisp here; Sadly to say I doubt that CPR would have any interest in the locomotive, they are in struggle to get their day to day shit together and just avoided an engineer's strike. Post HH they are in the usual mess that companies who have gone thru his finical wringer find themselves. Poor moral, endless labor problems and shortages, worn out infrastructure etc.,but hell they are making better fiscal returns. Does anyone actually know what has happened to the HUDSON and who would be in charge of it?? As for appealing to CPR where do you start in the corporate ladder. People with any connection to the companies storied past are long gone. Like UPs Big Boy the humble 2 8 2 's were the backbone of the freight operations in their time and are true Industrial history! Had this been 40 years ago my good friend's uncle was eastern VP and he worked for him as summer job so viola back then!
Does anyone have a true timeline of 5361 since it's retirement. I only have bits and pieces and I found that Expo Rail in Quebec is aware of the loco's predicament. I spoke to a good friend on the acquisition committee but he told me that they already had a Mikado. He better take a walk down the back ,they sent it to Revelstoke B.C. 16 years ago. At this point they do not pay for locos or their movement.
As for my services I normally charge 50 $ an hour, but being Canadian and this being Trump's brave new world I am afraid ICE would deport my ass to Mexico or worse. So this would be a freebee, in fact I have closed down my tax numbers for GST and even given up my CDL and Fast card. However I have spent two days on the phone and computer getting answers,quotes and advice about various equipment. I spoke to the short line and they are on board should something positive happen. Is anyone familiar with the area and able to find out who the neighbor with the trucks and front end loaders are parked. Al Crisp

Al Crisp...a little friendly advice...unless you've got nothing else to occupy your time....give it a rest. There's zero chance that CP is going to get involved and the Canadian RR museums are for all practical purposes impotent when it comes to a project with this price tag...so it will sit there until this guy croaks and then his estate will auction it off to the highest bidder ( probably a scrapper) and that will be that.

Sad but true.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Al Crisp here;I agree with you that CPR would never come thru these days nor any corporate entity for that matter despite the boat loads of cash coursing thru the American economy on phony stock buy backs. However it is no skin of my nose to get the basics of moving the beast out there, if in the unlikely event it came about. Being negative never got anything done. Above and beyond that I put the logistics out there for those to see who may think this is a good idea but would have problems with a folding chair.As I said I have worked on projects before and laying the ground work and knowing the cost is key to everything. Volunteers for the most part are well meaning but A; are a liability or B; never show up when needed. The ones that are useful ,you put an orange vest on so you can see them and get on with it.
I doubt that a scrapper would bid on that engine in it's present position,it would be an expensive proposition for little return at 100 per ton. You do not cut those things up with a propane torch from NAPA!!
To put things in perspective of todays world, an F 35 jet cost the US military about 140 million on the ground. That's about enough to make 5361 run,build it's own engine shed and get 20 or so miles of track up and running for it. I am going down stairs and run my P2's around the layout. Cheers for now

As I said...give it a rest. enough already.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

No harm in running the numbers, although I will be a lot more excited when I hear a viable plan to do something with her after she's rescued. Forget the 100k, all you need to offer is more than the scrapper once the owner passes.

And have LOTS more money to deal with her in one/two pieces--provided that even proves possible where she's at.

This Mikado is sitting a few feet from an active shortline. It appears that some panel track would be enough to get the the mikado back onto active rail. The shortline interchanges with Norfolk Southern, whose mainline runs right by a rail museum. Distance from where the mikado is currently parked to the museum is slightly less than 9 miles.

It we can't save this one what can we save?

I think some of the contributors to this discussion are being too "glib" about rescuing the Mike. Let me boil this down as one who has been on site: #1, she's really in a bad spot, with little wiggle room, even to get machinery in. #2, I don't see the money available to put down rails and a connecting switch, even if the local RR will cooperate. #3, the owner is no preservationist, if he won't entertain the greater good as part of his legacy. #4, $100,000 purchase price is pale compared to what it will cost to get he out.

Don't get me wrong, she's a gorgeous locomotive and should be saved, but $100,000 in the hands of an outfit like AOS, NESCO, Strasburg, or any other shop, would go miles in terms of assured rebuilding a current project.

Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Al Crisp here; As of yesterday I had a call from CPR's over dimensional engineer in Calgary. He is going thru the logistics and costs of moving the 5351 to a couple destinations in central Canada. We would appreciate any information we can get from people familiar with the physical condition of the loco and the connections between the loco and tender. All these things add up the price of moving and lifting the beast.
CPR is back acting a little more like part of the community and is supporting things after HH and we [there is a few of us working on this]are working to get this on their radar. Any and all positive input would be helpful and appreciated especially from the museum community on both sides of the border. I would like to hear from anyone who has actually worked on the loco.
If I got up anybody's nose before I apologize but I worked and lived my life doing jobs you could not hand off and say I quite. Cheers Al Crisp

This is the track situation. It would take a bit of panel track laying but it may be possible to build track back far enough to roll the locomotive back, then build track forward to connect it to the industry lead. Probably a weeks worth of work with about 4 guys and a couple pieces of equipment.

Congrats to Al for making more progress than I would have thought possible. The big question is, however, who is going to buy the 5361 and how much is it going to cost? I can see CPR paying for the move or the loco, but not both.

The most economical option would probably be to wait until the owner passes and then contact the family, offering to match the highest offer. But by then those who are in a position at CPR to help may have moved on, economy could tank, merger, etc.

This thread just got much more interesting. Time to get the popcorn out.

I was brought up to speed by a highly respected boiler man in Ontario this past weekend who shared with me that this particular CP Mike was always a problem child from day 1 when it left MLW. MLW and CPR could never come to terms or figure out the repair needed as it broke staybolts at an alarming rate. As a result, it did not rack up nearly the miles and hours that most other engines did in their service lives. Its last commercial use was either to supply stationary steam or in snow-melter service. Sounds like she would NOT be a very good candidate for restoration to operation unless someone really wanted to analyze the firebox and get to the bottom of the original problem.

Sincerely,

Rob Gardner

Penny wise, pound foolish....Exactly.

The owner's price is perhaps $30,000 more than scrap value plus the value of all the jewelry (builders plates, headlight, bell, gauges, etc.) sold in the railroadiana marketplace.

Taking the ghoul route might save you $30k on acquisition but you'lll end up paying 10 times that on an emergency move.

Was that specific to the class or just gremlins in this specific locomotive?

Oh yes, and most of the jewellery appears to have been removed, so you can dock that from the scrap value...

Clear from the language "this particular Mike" - he's not describing the whole class, just that one locomotive. Might be possible to analyze some of the issue by looking at patterns in the broken staybolting over the years.

The 'flip side' of the argument is that much of the running gear may have seen lower wear and tear. Problem is that this may not make the engine any more 'reliable' or have any more practical lifetime than any other CP Mike receiving regular maintenance, and the owner may be inclined to start adding zeroes to the demanded price on the theory it's a low-mileage classic.