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 Post subject: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Moving from the Mexico quake disaster thread:

I knew Rio Grande had and old PB used for heat or electricity at one time, but never heard of a Canadian unit. Perhaps a listing of odd-ball survivors, either in regular railroad service or tucked away on sidings by private owners is called for?

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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:37 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
Is that RG PB still around? I know they switched it to Blomberg B trucks which would make restoration problematic.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
filmteknik wrote:
Is that RG PB still around? I know they switched it to Blomberg B trucks which would make restoration problematic.


I believe it still is; it was sold with the other Ski Train equipment to the Algoma Central.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/ACR/78.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The "Canadian" PB unit is the former Rio Grande Unit. The Rio Grande had two. One was used mainly as the boiler car and later power car for the Ski Train, the other was used as the boiler car for the Rio Grande Zephyr. The second unit was cut up at Burnham right after the SP (or was it UP?) merger in a general cleanup of equipment.

The remaining power car went to AC in Canada with the former Canadian "Tempo" cars that they used for the Ski Train.

Other than the shell of the body, not much remains of its PB heritage. It even rides on EMD trucks now.

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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 91
Yes, but Doyle bought three pairs of trucks from under recently scrapped Erie-built B unit shells up in Canada in the late 1990's for his project (Right about the same time that the last Baldwin DR-4-4-15 B unit shell also got cut up in Pennsylvania, years after most fans thought that the model had become extinct)

So if some dreamer wanted to return her close to her original external appearance (She'd sure look nice trailing NKP 190 even if internally she was just a tool and crew car on excursions, or painted in ATSF colors paired with the #16 in Frisco), the missing trucks are hopefully a solvable problem since I doubt he scrapped the spare set.

She's more complete from an external standpoint and in far better shape than the two cab units that were repatriated were. They too were just empty, truck-less shells. Yet they lacked their external sheathing and had significant damage and deterioration to their framework. They would've never been considered for a restoration project due to their incomplete and poor condition if it weren't for their rarity and notoriety. This B unit shell is in good condition and mostly intact externally with just relatively minor modifications having been done to her appearance. Heck, she wouldn't even need an expensive ride on a flatcar to where the work would be done.

So she's a much easier project if someone was to buy her and tackle it. It would only be a big ticket project if one wanted to go all the way and return her to being a true locomotive. But she's less glamorous than the Mexican survivors since booster units are usually neglected and less exciting (even though they can really set off a set of cab units), so hopefully she has a long life ahead in Canada since I doubt she'll be saved when her working days are concluded.

Either way, she's a survivor even if she's usually forgotten about, and the last of her kind.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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The third set of GSC A1A trucks were left behind when ORHC relocated from Albany to Portland and are presumed scrapped. The only remaining extra GSC A1A-style trucks are located in Australia now I believe (they had all three axles powered but are the same design).


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

Quote:
She's more complete from an external standpoint and in far better shape than the two cab units that were repatriated were.


From a stray thought, if the PB1 were to have correct trucks, could she be used as a slug?

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:06 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: Chicago USA
Would DLM really abandon those rare trucks? Giving the pair to the Smithsonian unit got him his PA, no? I didn't know there was a third set but I'm shocked that they'd be abandoned. That there exists a PB on wrong trucks isn't exactly a secret.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:09 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
Yes, the PB could in theory be used as a slug with an appropriately wired mother, presumably you mean the PA, for added traction at low speeds. That could be done with the correct trucks or the incorrect trucks if they have motors and there's a cooling fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:42 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
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Hi,

Quote:
the PB could in theory be used as a slug


I forgot that a slug was used at slow speeds - sorry about that.

I guess a non-standerd engine could be put inside the PB1 for operability.

If there was a second operable PA1, then you could run a PA1-PB1-PA1 set. What a sight.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:17 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
While it would probably be impossible to find a 16-244 (original equipment) you could do what the D&H and MK did with a 12-251 which is how Doyle is restoring his PA. Hence the PA4 designation. And if you went with a completely new electrical system and used a 16-251 you could do 3000HP and reasonably call it a PB5.

I suppose if no proper trucks can be found one could rework the frame and use Blomberg A1A's. Rework them to duct the cooling air the normal way, not through the center plates. Are there E unit trucks around? I wouldn't want to sacrifice an E for this.

The usual armchair speculations.


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:22 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
A few years ago I became friends with one of Doyle's associates (who wishes to remain anonymous) who told me that the third pair of A-1-A trucks had definitely been scrapped. Apparently there were storage fees owing and the prospect of future storage fees and no immediate use for them sealed their fate. So there's that. In my mind the bigger tragedy is that D&RGW steam generator ex-PA #252 survived intact with original trucks until the early '90s at the Burnham shops until scrapped by SP.

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Last edited by davew833 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:29 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
davew833 wrote:
A few years ago I became friends with one of Doyle's associates (who wishes to remain anonymous) who told me that the third pair of A-1-A trucks had definitely been scrapped. Apparently there were storage fees owing and the prospect of future storage fees sealed their fate. So there's that. In my mind the bigger tragedy is that D&RGW steam generator ex-PA #252 survived intact with original trucks until the early '90s at the Burnham shops until scrapped by SP.


Well, this is certainly disappointing in so many ways, but I don't think it's completely hopeless. If we can build new 4-4-0s, cast new cylinder blocks for steam engines, and make what seems to be amazing progress on a reproduced PRR T1, a new set of trucks would seem relatively easy and inexpensive by comparison.

Notice I said relatively easy and inexpensive!


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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:04 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 627
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The Alco DL500 "World Locomotive" of which some 369 copies were produced and sold worldwide has similar trucks. It would probably be less costly to import a set and re-gauge them if necessary rather than fabricate new ones. The team restoring Krauss-Maffei SP 9010 imported a set of trucks from Europe, so it's not an impossible idea.

The DL500 locomotive itself is essentially a stretched FA. I've often thought it would be cool to bring one back to the US and paint it in ATSF Warbonnet colors just for fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Canadian PB unit?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:47 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
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The 'other' GSC trucks - be the 'C' or 'A1A' - are substantially shorter wheelbase.
The 'third set' of trucks that came from Canada were heavily damaged, I doubt they were useable - tere's a picture or few out there somewhere.

CD


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