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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 482
ebtrr wrote:
David Notarius wrote:
Hi Guys, Getting a bit back on topic, is there a current roster of what is left on the EBT, including freight and passenger cars? Also, what is the current condition of the right of way?Thanks, David Notarius, freezing in England


I could go on ad nauseam on this subject, but I will try to be brief. The physical roster at the page below was last updated in 2005 but is still pretty accurate. Since then two boxcars, a flatcar and a hopper were pulled from the Rockhill dead line for reuse, Combine 18 and baggage 29 were repatriated from Colorado to Rockhill, and the non-EBT USATC boxcars in Mount Union have been scrapped. Beyond that, both Pine Creek and WW&F have removed parts of hoppers in Mount Union but no other equipment has left.

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/proster.html

This page details the stats and distribution of existing rolling stock as of the same date as the roster above:

http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/stats.html

The tourist portion from Rockhill to Colgate Grove is being kept clear and serviceable for speeders and larger equipment has been run as far as McMullens Summit. The weeds are encroaching but are being sprayed periodically. The cuts and fills are suffering from some erosion. Outside of that area the line is much as it has been with trees growing between the rails, large ones in some cases. A section of rail was stolen south of Coles as part of a scam that has been fairly well covered. Other than that and a couple short sections where the rail has been moved to permit equipment access, the rail remains intact from Mount Union to just short of old Alvan. The Robertsdale yard which was cleared while under lease by the EBTPA to the Broad Top Coal Miners Association between 2009 and 2011 has since been going back to nature.

FEBT Restoration at Rockhill Furnace continues on with work progressing on the Locomotive Shop, Lumber Shed, Blacksmith Shop and Foundry, was well as Combine 14. FEBT's restoration of the RI&C Company Post Office in Robertsdale is nearly completed and all new exhibits are in the process of being constructed for the new museum in that building.


I'm going to be real brutal here. You could sell most of that rolling stock off for scrap or some of the better condition pieces to other narrow gauge lines and probably fund the overhaul of one the locomotives just off that. The man wants to sell the railroad and all its assets in one piece, but there's nothing stopping the buyer from selling off what they don't want or need once they have it.

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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5508
Location: southeastern USA
OK, if we HAD to triage and preserve the most historic part of the railroad, the shops complex would naturally be predominant along with a good stock of related equipment for display and operation. Running from the shop complex, what's the most reasonably short piece of line that would be worthwhile to try to preserve? I seem to recall a short turnaround run to a picnic grove and back in the old days....... but I'm unfamiliar with details and what may be better options.

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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 555
I don't get why so many of you are ready to let some of the ROW go away. But we can't cut up 503? Title clear, historic, accessible ROW is just as precious as any steam engine, and this place is narrow gauge to boot...


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1107
Location: Back in NE Ohio
OK, the theoretical priorities for preserving the EBT are probably:

* The shops, which the Friends have spent over 10 years shoring up and rebuilding. Finish
getting them refurbished and stabilized. Shop tours can be a source of revenue, and something
the Friends can conduct as docents. No one understands the shops at this point better than
those who have been working on them.

* Getting the five or so miles of the previously operated excursion route to Colgate Grove in
shape to operate again, and that would mean a major renewal - the works - which it really
has never had in preservation. Do what is necessary to get it operable for weekends, taking
sections that could be rebuilt in five days out-of-service at a time, until it's all rebuilt.

* Take the best cars and get them in shape for service for weekends as a single train consist,
along with Mike #15, which still has time left on it's last 1472. Contract out a 1472 overhaul for
#14, which was operable until about 2005, and would be the next easiest engine to get going
again. Evaluate the rest of the Mikes and restore as many of them as practical to operating
condition over time. There have been as many four operable in the past.

* Develop a plan to build replicas of some of the coaches, both to expand the fleet, and to
conserve the historic cars and save them for special occasions, like the railfan weekend. Same
for the M-1 "doodlebug". Build a mechanically more modern replica to run on light patronage
days, and save the real one for special occasions.

* Bring in professional operators who know how to run and market a historic attraction. Plan
on eventually operating weekdays, at least for group charters, but hopefully eventually
Wednesday-Sunday on a regular basis, probably with one of the Diesels during the week to
begin with. They should be experts in attracting bus tour groups, and running a successful
concession operation. Strasburg could serve as a model for what it should look like.

* Take whatever action is necessary to firm up rights and possession of the entire RoW that hasn't
been sold off yet. Mt. Union has changed so much that going in that direction probably is no
longer practical. Concentrate efforts on eventually operating towards Robertsdale.


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:15 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 99
The rescue the EBT - if at all possible yet- seems to depend rather on a touristical than a technical concept (the latter of which have been published ten a penny). When we visited the place in 2010, I think we had to go for about an hour to have an acceptable hotel.

You will not save the EBT by the money of those railfans who appear on place and who even here in this forum are being discredited as "foamers".

You will neither get any dime off these guys you first discredit for supporting 5550.

What might have saved the EBT would have been a sort of Loch Ness monster in that area. We didn't see one, big turtles on the roads instead.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 482
484Mike wrote:
The rescue the EBT - if at all possible yet- seems to depend rather on a touristical than a technical concept (the latter of which have been published ten a penny). When we visited the place in 2010, I think we had to go for about an hour to have an acceptable hotel.

You will not save the EBT by the money of those railfans who appear on place and who even here in this forum are being discredited as "foamers".

You will neither get any dime off these guys you first discredit for supporting 5550.

What might have saved the EBT would have been a sort of Loch Ness monster in that area. We didn't see one, big turtles on the roads instead.

Mike


Please check out the other thread on this topic to see what Central PA has to offer.

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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:48 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1359
I know that a lot of thought has gone into how to make EBT into a viable recreational railroad, including how to develop the operation and how to market it. But before it arrives at those decisions, it needs a buyer who can not only develop an operation and marketing, but also is willing to make a large investment. And a lot has been said about that needed investment making prospective buyers scarce.

So not only will marketing be necessary to sell the product, but it will also be necessary to find the buyer. What is being done in that regard? Has the EBT been placed on the market for a specific asking price? What percentage of the actual market knows about the offering? Is there an answer to that question?


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 174
Conway Scenic just sold.... Anyone know how much it sold for?


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
I thought I read in the NPS study that there are going to be some real issues getting a clear title to the EBT properties.


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:58 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:33 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the comment ... I posted this material earlier in December ... I have quoted it in full ...

The condition of the ROW is an interesting question... The other post went into a detailed discussion of what FEBT is doing... this covers the other areas...

At the time that Kovalchick bought the property in the 1950s, the acreage was something in the 60,000 range. Unlike other RRs, the right of way did not have a separate property description, even though there are valuation maps with an assumed ROW width of 60 feet. There was no property transfer in the form of a recorded deed to Kovalchick. The company purchased 100 percent of the EBT stock from Rockhill Furnace. Later Kovalchick purchased the RFI itself and then "sold" RFI to EBT in a recorded deed a few years later.

Over the years, parcels of land have been sold off to pay the bills, assessed taxes, etc. The yard areas in Orbisonia were reduced by land sales to developers, American Legion, schools, FEBT, etc. Then take away the land leased to the trolley museum. The Mt Union yards down to MP4 were sold but amazingly enough, EBT retains operating rights into MT. Union. Parts of the ROW south of Rockhill furnace have been compromised with track removal. Even one of the tunnels has been sold off with the railroad retaining only an easement through the property.

As noted in the 1990s National Parks study, there will be a number of challenges in putting together a single deed document to sell the property ...


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 Post subject: Re: East Broad Top owner trying to sell railroad in one piec
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 214
Location: New York
484Mike wrote:
The rescue the EBT - if at all possible yet- seems to depend rather on a touristical than a technical concept (the latter of which have been published ten a penny). When we visited the place in 2010, I think we had to go for about an hour to have an acceptable hotel.


I got a dumb question. While EBT is shut down, the Rock Hill Trolley Museum seems to be making a go of it. Where do they find their success in an otherwise tourist wasteland devoid of basic services?

-otto-

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