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 Post subject: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
I just received a very interesting email from Canadian Pacific. Back on July 17th, I used their website to submit the following question:

Hello, can you please send me a copy of the agreement between Canadian Pacific and Steamtown National Historic Site for the transfer of CP steam engine 2816? The date should be 1998. Thanks for your help.

I ask this because 2816 has been sitting idle and am curious if there are any clauses in the original agreement that could, depending on certain circumstances, repatriate the engine to SNHS. Some persons have speculated as much, or have implied that there was to be a quid pro quo that never materialized.

I expected a quick reply with a canned answer, but instead, received this from CP, more than two months later:

Thank you for your inquiry, however CP does not share this information with the public.
Regards


So it would seem that, potentially, an agreement exists. I wonder what it could say? Or when it might expire (shades of 972?). Food for thought. Please keep discussion on topic.


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
Guessing the intern saw the word "agreement" and simply gave you the canned reply for that.

Since Steamtown is a public agency, I suspect you'd have much better luck getting the information from them, what the terms were etc.

I keep hoping that now that Hunter Harrison is gone they might do more with the historic fleet, but I'm not putting any big bets on that happening.


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Bobharbison wrote:

I keep hoping that now that Hunter Harrison is gone they might do more with the historic fleet, but I'm not putting any big bets on that happening.


Isn't Creel the son-in-law of HH?


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 238
A Freedom of Information Act request is likely your best bet. Link below.

https://www.foia.gov/


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
PM sent


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I'd agree that you've got a better chance with a FOIA request to the NPS. As for the longer term chances for the locomotive to see an active life I'd guess she's better off staying at CP as Scranton has shown its inability to keep mainline power in service.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 94
Did you sign your demand or was it anonymous same as your post here?


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
R.L.Kennedy wrote:
Did you sign your demand or was it anonymous same as your post here?


Email, full name with middle initial, and phone number.


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
CP owns 2816, steamtown sold it to them back in 1998, I was randomly scanning TV channels not too long ago and hit on a CP history using 2816, there was an IMAX film made with it, one of the networks must have grabbed it to do a short half hour bit, I quickly recorded it trying to find it.


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 712
Scranton Yard wrote:
A Freedom of Information Act request is likely your best bet. Link below.

https://www.foia.gov/


Would that work on a Canadian Corporation?


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 238
Lincoln Penn wrote:
Scranton Yard wrote:
A Freedom of Information Act request is likely your best bet. Link below.

https://www.foia.gov/


Would that work on a Canadian Corporation?


Yes. While one party to the contract was a Canadian Corporation, the other was the Federal Government/Department of Interior/National Park Service, who sold or otherwise transferred an asset owned by the government to a private foreign corporation. As JR May has discussed in his great posts about government purchasing and divesting, there are rules and procedures for this sort of thing and, unless it is a matter of national security, it is all a matter of public record.

Superheater, the resident guy in the green visor, could probably provide more information about the accounting/regulatory nuances of such a transaction, as he did regarding the transfer of Nickel Plate 757 by the Rail Road Museum of PA to the folks in OH. He also helped prepare the locomotive for transfer from Scranton to CPR.

I've said all I have to say about the likely condition if the Hudson had stayed in Scranton and about the movie, Rocky Mountain Express, a 2011 IMAX film, in other threads. While this is interesting, I do not understand what, if anything, 6-18003 would do with any information he gets from his request.

His note was polite - he said "please" and "thank you" so I'll characterize it as a request. I can not recall seeing a corporate website information request form that does not red asterisk fields such as name, address, email address, and phone number as required fields.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:07 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 603
Location: Bucks County, PA
Bobharbison wrote:
I keep hoping that now that Hunter Harrison is gone they might do more with the historic fleet, but I'm not putting any big bets on that happening.


In all fairness, they did bring their F-unit out to lead their recent "Canada 150 Train", a goodwill train that crossed the country to celebrate Canada's Sesquicentennial. So it's a small step of progress.

co614 wrote:
As for the longer term chances for the locomotive to see an active life I'd guess she's better off staying at CP as Scranton has shown its inability to keep mainline power in service.


We get it. Please stop beating that dead horse already.

_________________
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Morrisville, PA

http://www.bigjimvideo.com/home.html
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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Scranton Yard wrote:

I do not understand what, if anything, 6-18003 would do with any information he gets from his request.



I'd like to know what the truth is. Was the engine really purchased outright? Or is it on long term loan, with conditions attached, as I have read elsewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:30 am
Posts: 546
6-18003 wrote:
I'd like to know what the truth is. Was the engine really purchased outright? Or is it on long term loan, with conditions attached, as I have read elsewhere?

I seem to recall from about 20 years ago Steamtown received services from CP in exchange for 2816. It other words CP moved equipment for them.


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 Post subject: Re: An interesting response re: CP 2816
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
https://www.nbc.com/journey-with-dylan- ... ss/3517455

The show was Dylan Dryer, on the Journeys show, Rocky Mountain Express using 2816 as its backdrop to illustrate the CP history, great shots in it.


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