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 Post subject: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
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Location: MA
From the facebook steam town fourm scrapping thread

"The WCRHA has been trying to find a home for the QRL&P #124 Day Coach built by Jackson & Sharp that we got from Steamtown in 2005 with no takers to date. It's in decent shape for its age. Those of us who were involved with the project have either passed or moved from the area and the group is faced with the loss of its storage facility. Here's the cat on 20 Aug 2016 in the daylight. We don't want to see it scrapped."
-Fred Heilich

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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:23 am
Posts: 128
Location: willow grove pa
earlier post outlines an interesting history for this car.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31088


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 555
Watch the jargon! Many have no idea what or where WCRHA or QRL&P are.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Posts: 1377
John T, thank you for that post. The undefined use of acronyms and initialisms has been common on this site and it was about time for it to be commented on. It would make many posts here much more readable if the authors would please spell out the name of organizations completely the first time they are mentioned in a post and then use acronyms if they prefer in the remainder of the message.

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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:47 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 130
I notice that the car was fitted with Miller hooks at some time in the past. It would be be a good candidate for an early date restoration. The body is reasonable straight. It has interesting trucks. I hope someone picks it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:24 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1436
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
John T wrote:
Many have no idea what or where WCRHA or QRL&P are.
West Coast Railway Historical Society and Quincy Railway, Light & Power?
Could someone at least disclose the states involved, even if the actual location and history have to be kept secret?


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:31 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 895
Since nobody seems to have gotten the hint, and the actual Facebook post has dropped off the visible page:

WCHRA = West Chester Historic Railroad Association (in suburban Philadelphia)
westchesterrr.net/wchra.html - not easy to find with a Google search on the acronym.

QRL&P = Quebec Railway, Light & Power Co.
As a matter of peripheral interest, here is a link to a PDF download (be advised this is a direct download, not an URL to a download page) of promotional literature issued by them for tourism in the area served by the car in question:

https://archive.org/download/quebecmontmorenc00queb_0/quebecmontmorenc00queb_0.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 464
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
My question is not so much the meaning of the acronyms but the term "or else" in the header.

Does it mean that if the car is not acquired by another party posthaste it will be converted to kindling and hardware, or does it mean that we as a group will be subjected by the usual suspects to the usual discussion of what should be done with someone else's money?

Either strikes me as a valid reason for an entity with the assets to stick it in a garage and go to work on it.

GME


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 469
Location: Wall, NJ
For anyone interested, I plan to have a look at the car perhaps this week, shooting for Wednesday afternoon. PM me is you are interested in attending with me.

By my current understanding, and this is only my understanding, the indoor space that the car now occupies will be lost soon. Tied to that, the crew that had been working on the car has either retired, died, or moved out of state. By the sounds of it, there is space outdoors for the car at the WCRHA (I’d need to confirm that), but without a local champion, the car will no doubt meet its demise at the hands of mother nature. Being that I am not far from the WC during the week, I am thinking that perhaps I can be that local champion for the car which will no doubt need to be cocooned in some fashion to preserve it. I'm willing to take that on, but some help would be appreciated.

If the idea was acceptable to the WCRHA, I’d look to develop some locals who may want to work on it, essentially re-creating the team that original took on the car. I’m a big one for the idea of that "simple act of preservation" so that would be my initial goal.

The question that looms in front of anyone looking at this car is “why bother?” What makes this car worth saving? In truth I have struggled with this question and came up with the following points, both positive and negative:

1) Its a survivor having been built in 1889 and in relative complete shape. Built in nearby Delaware by J&S. It retains its original all wood structure to include the main frame.

2) It has ties to the earliest days of Steamtown and Nelson Blount which is of interest to me at least, perhaps to include some distant involvement via Edgar Mead who I got to know via Pine Creek.

3) Built as a coach for the Quebec, Montmorency and Charlevoix Railway (QM&C) it was later re-trucked and used as a trailer when the Quebec Railway Light & Power electrified the QM&C. So, while it has a history as a conventional coach, it spent much of its life as a trailer. Trolleys and interurbans tend to interest me as much as steam. As it stands now, it may make a nice addition to a trolley museum as a way to quickly increase passenger capacity.

4) On the down side, there is no real US historic RR connection other than being built in Delaware and the early Steamtown connection.

5) Again, on the down side, its lack of a steel frame seems to limit its usability by various tourist operations. Use as a trailer may be the best option for it.

6) The round top roof is reminiscent of an earlier time in coach construction, but then causes it to lack a certain charm that many desire.

7) It has survived ownership by the National Park Service/Steamtown. Take a look at the current RyPN Steamtown scrapping topic/discussion and this is actually one damn lucky car. In short, if not for the WCRHA this car would not be with us today. In my mind, the work done by the WCRHA should not be wasted. It needs to be embraced and the work they have done taken to the next level.

So, that is where I am coming from. Not so much, buy it and move it to a new location as much as re-generating a group of people willing to take it on, replacing those who saved it originally. Again, I have no confirmation that this is acceptable by the WCRHA. Just exploring the options here.

Again, send me an email if interested in helping.

J.R. May
jrmay@monmouth.com


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:56 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am
Posts: 41
As was stated in a comment recently, the acronyms were spelled out early on in the original postings both on RYPN and on Facebook. As the trail gets longer only the acronyms seem to follow.

WCRHA - West Chester Railroad Heritage Assoc West Chester, PA.
QM&C - Quebec Montmorency & Charlevoix
QRL&P - Quebec Railway Light & Power

Fred Heilich


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:31 pm
Posts: 13
Interesting that this car survives time and time again. not 100% sure but I think this was the car in the pole barn that collapsed in the spring of 1982. was slated for scraping at that time as the roof had partially collapsed due to the trusses falling on them. The two Canadians (same two guys I mentioned in the scrapping thread) worked to jack the roof back up and installed new curved beams and steel reinforcement as needed to get the roof fixed. the car at Scranton was made into the display car status and had exhibits in the early years before NPS. so it survives the park service and has seen further work under current ownership.

This would be best saved as a trolley Trailer and is small enough that it should be movable by using a Landall or similar trailer, Perhaps without even needing permits.

Very worthy of saving.

AL P.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 469
Location: Wall, NJ
Specific dimensions are as follows:

* Length over buffers 52'2" (couplers length extra)
* Body width 9'8"
* Body length 46' +/-
* Body wheelbase at king pins 32'10"
* Height top of rail to platform 4'
* Height top of rail to top of roof 12'6"
* Wheel diameter 33"
* Truck wheelbase 5'10"
* Weight approx 47,000 lb


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am
Posts: 41
From my work on the car there has been no major roof damage in recent years or steel installed on the car. Yes it was the Display Car at Steamtown at one point. The car has to be moved on a beam trailer and is about 13 ft high from top of rail, 10 feet wide and about 52 feet over the couplers and weighs about 45,000 lbs. The car when moved from Scranton to West Chester had to be permitted.

Fred Heilich


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:12 pm
Posts: 89
I believe Steamtown Foundation had two of these Quebec Railway Light & Power trailers / ex-Quebec Charlevoix and Montmorency steam-hauled cars, both built by Jackson & Sharp and dating from the late 1880s. The other one had a clerestory roof and may have been a combine. It also made the move to Scranton and into NPS ownership. It would be interesting to know whether or not the later still exists.

As for the car that is the subject of this thread, Seashore Trolley Museum seems an obvious appropriate home, with restored 1930-built QRL&P motor car 454 having long been part of its collection. Although seemingly incongruous, the late steel motor cars often hauled the ancient wooden trailers, and indeed an image search under "Quebec Railway Light & Power" turned up photos of 454 itself pulling several different examples. With the trailer in question having been unloved at Scranton for so long, and for the last several years now again in need of a new home, it is almost surprising that it hasn't made its way to Seashore, given the well-organized efforts within the trolley preservation community over the last decade or so to get things where they belong.

An older wooden QRL&P motor car and another of the ancient trailers are at the Canadian Railway Museum, so returning the one in question to Quebec seems less of an imperative than re-uniting it with the motor car in Maine.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood passenger car needs home or else!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
George Jackson Churchward wrote:
it is almost surprising that it hasn't made its way to Seashore, given the well-organized efforts within the trolley preservation community over the last decade or so to get things where they belong.

I have been led to believe, from others in this "community," that "Seashore" has not been part of that "well-organized efforts," for a variety of reasons.


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