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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5233
Location: southeastern USA
I think it is not hard to include most of life experience over the past 200 years as related to railway history. Steamtown can be more than just a technology museum, and in fact is I recall...... so explore the economic, social and lives of the population that relate to railroads in any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 360
Dave wrote:
I think it is not hard to include most of life experience over the past 200 years as related to railway history. Steamtown can be more than just a technology museum, and in fact is I recall...... so explore the economic, social and lives of the population that relate to railroads in any way.


Some examples, please?


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5233
Location: southeastern USA
Railroaders and their families lives from 1860 through 1950. The growth of the coal industry in Scranton before and after the railroad made it possible to cost effectively ship it in bulk long distances. The family and work lives of the coal miners whose jobs on Scranton are directly resulting from the growth caused by the railroads. How Scranton developed as the railroad driven coal economy made the city grow. Hands-on interactive experience offered to visitors to actually drive spikes, tamp track, do any of the daily activities of rail workers. Cultural and ethnic groups that moved to Scranton as a result of economic opportunity based on the rail and coal industries - different languages, foods, etc. The rising emerging middle class resulting from organized labor in the coal and rail industries and its decline since the 1980s.

2 minutes off the top of my head, all of which can be developed into special events.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 360
Dave wrote:
Railroaders and their families lives from 1860 through 1950. The growth of the coal industry in Scranton before and after the railroad made it possible to cost effectively ship it in bulk long distances. The family and work lives of the coal miners whose jobs on Scranton are directly resulting from the growth caused by the railroads. How Scranton developed as the railroad driven coal economy made the city grow. Hands-on interactive experience offered to visitors to actually drive spikes, tamp track, do any of the daily activities of rail workers. Cultural and ethnic groups that moved to Scranton as a result of economic opportunity based on the rail and coal industries - different languages, foods, etc. The rising emerging middle class resulting from organized labor in the coal and rail industries and its decline since the 1980s.

2 minutes off the top of my head, all of which can be developed into special events.


I know the history of the area, I am asking for a specific event that partners with the immediate community and would actually qualify for a usage permit. For instance, a request for a Slavic food festival on park grounds to benefit the local historical society would be denied. Under current interpretation, the subject matter has to relate directly to the park's mission, and can only benefit the park, as seen in the Toys for Tots example. In other words, an impossible situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1709
"For instance, a request for a Slavic food festival on park grounds to benefit the local historical society would be denied. "


If an ethnic group wanted to have a food festival-within reason-in my opinion only-I do not see it being denied. Food vendors come in for Railfest-they obtain a concession permit and operate accordingly.

The difference is that they would be a concessionaire providing something for the visitor; Toys for Tots was not a concessionaire.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2069
Location: Northern Illinois
6-18003 wrote:
Dave wrote:
I think it is not hard to include most of life experience over the past 200 years as related to railway history. Steamtown can be more than just a technology museum, and in fact is I recall...... so explore the economic, social and lives of the population that relate to railroads in any way.


Some examples, please?


Only time I've been to Steamtown was in the late nineties, on the flip side of driving my daughter to college in Boston. At that time the displays were big on the sociological impart of itinerant railroad workers... problem is, they were conflating 'boomers' with 'hobos'.

I've never been back.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
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I bring it up as a lament and not an argument, as SNHS will not realize its potential until it becomes a true part of the community. It can't do that under the current interpretation of the rule book. Best of luck to the IHS.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
No disagreement about being part of the community - and there are many definitions of community. Win - win would be something that benefits all participants including the site.

I go back to the idea of removing restrictions on entrepreneural activities allowed by public sector sites - if they can outcompete other venues in the marketplace, let them. It will raise the bar for everybody in the long run, and expand their audience base.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:10 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:29 pm
Posts: 29
The biggest problem that free is going to create is the foamers. The ones that never pay to ride and certainly did not paying to get in before. They will be pushing there way to the front to get better shots creating a great experience for the rest. We have all seen them.

I keep going back. A movie really? For the general public? If this is the best the brain trust IHS has? You,re asking the same that already go if they would come.

You want an idea that might actually bring people to visit who aren't already coming there. Try the military and railroads. Bring in 501C3 compliant Marines Toys for Tots, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine full time and reserve recruiters. Military Reenactors from all eras. They will come for free and have great advertising budgets.
TV. and radio really eat this stuff up. Bringing this into the general public's eye. And if you want to show a movie about the military railroads now is the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:14 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 360
fixologist61 wrote:
The biggest problem that free is going to create is the foamers. The ones that never pay to ride and certainly did not paying to get in before. They will be pushing there way to the front to get better shots creating a great experience for the rest. We have all seen them.

I keep going back. A movie really? For the general public? If this is the best the brain trust IHS has? You,re asking the same that already go if they would come.

You want an idea that might actually bring people to visit who aren't already coming there. Try the military and railroads. Bring in 501C3 compliant Marines Toys for Tots, Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine full time and reserve recruiters. Military Reenactors from all eras. They will come for free and have great advertising budgets.
TV. and radio really eat this stuff up. Bringing this into the general public's eye. And if you want to show a movie about the military railroads now is the time.


They already have an annual (I believe) military tie-in, with vintage equipment. They just need to advertise it, which the IHS can assist with.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:41 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2069
Location: Northern Illinois
Dave wrote:
I go back to the idea of removing restrictions on entrepreneurial activities allowed by public sector sites - if they can out compete other venues in the marketplace, let them...


And therein lies the reason for some of the restrictions, I'm sure. If the Steamtown theater starts showing general interest movies, undercutting area theaters on cost, the owners of those theaters would have a valid complaint that their tax dollars are being used to directly compete with their businesses. Typical solution is to limit what can be presented in a tax supported venue to things that don't compete with the area businesses.

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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:51 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 360
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Dave wrote:
I go back to the idea of removing restrictions on entrepreneurial activities allowed by public sector sites - if they can out compete other venues in the marketplace, let them...


And therein lies the reason for some of the restrictions, I'm sure. If the Steamtown theater starts showing general interest movies, undercutting area theaters on cost, the owners of those theaters would have a valid complaint that their tax dollars are being used to directly compete with their businesses. Typical solution is to limit what can be presented in a tax supported venue to things that don't compete with the area businesses.


No one is talking about showing current feature films. You are looking more at something like "Murder on the Orient Express." And the county government already screens several free movies on the square during the summer months, with no backlash from theaters that I am aware of.

I understand that there is a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the site; no one wants the park to feel like a flea market. But I am sure there is also a good amount of discretion that can be exercised on the part of park management as to what may not be entirely within the wheelhouse of rail preservation, but does improve relations with the community.

Toys for Tots, for example, is a non-profit with a good reputation and is a benefit to the community as a whole. Via a google search, TFT's Festival of Trees had been held on park grounds for at least seven years before management had an issue with it because the event was used as a fundraiser. That is the type of short-sightedness that keeps attendance low and turns off potential volunteers.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5233
Location: southeastern USA
Besides, it's hard to argue with the idea that forming strategic partnerships that bring in a wider audience is not of benefit to the site. That covers a lot right there...... Toys for Tots run alongside a Santa train event seems like an obvious win - win for all concerned.

I don't believe there's any possible way that the film distribution industry would book a current feature film into a nonprofit historic site and earn no return on that showing - unless it is as an in kind donation for a very limited use of a film that has some obvious tie-in to the site or its mission.

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"Techies never minded eating bits and jots of their work. They were grit and grease inside and out and could turn a pile of junk into a magical kingdom."

Andrea Hairston


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 360
Dave wrote:

I don't believe there's any possible way that the film distribution industry would book a current feature film into a nonprofit historic site and earn no return on that showing - unless it is as an in kind donation for a very limited use of a film that has some obvious tie-in to the site or its mission.


Actually, and I don't know if the IMAX format would allow it to be shown, but the Rocky Mountain Express, featuring CP 2816, might be worth screening during an event like Railfest.


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 Post subject: Re: Steamtown goes "FOSS".
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 86
Location: San Jose, CA
Concerning an increase of community events...

While the over-tracks walkway provides a current link with downtown, the general public perceives a Grand Canyon-sized barrier. Flip with the shopping mall and the park gets directly connected with downtown becoming a more interesting venue.

Providing your location for event space takes a lot of direct staff time particularly facilities, janitorial, and security. Various museum departments can get involved in just the planning of an event. A large site such as SNP may require multiple staff members on-site even after-hours. While an institution can be configured to simplify the after-hours availability of a particular space, such as a theater for movies, staff members remain required to close and/or reconfigure the impacted space for the next day's regular museum activities. Dependent on the situation, after hours may require paying staff time and a half.

Various local permits may be required for outside food, alcohol, even animals. The number of projected attendees determines a need for porta potties and number of security officers and perhaps on-site emergency personal

While onsite events come in differing varieties, the final decision on holding each event becomes a cost/benefit decision by the administration.


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