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 Post subject: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:18 am 
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Okay, in researching the histories of some cars locally, I've got a few I have not been able to identify, or don't have the full history for:

With the recent discussion of the NP business car #4 Gallatin River (ex-PULL Newport) and the Oregon Electric coach trailers #132 and #137 at the former Andy's Diner (now the Orient Express) in Seattle (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32020), there are two additional cars at said restaurant I have not identified:

1. In the entry for the restaurant (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc-orginfo.html#Orient%20Express%20Restaurant), the Hicks-Hakner database lists an unidentified MU commuter coach: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3994370

2. Also located at the restaurant is a Harriman coach: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3994483

Moving on, there are several cars either located in Elbe and Mineral, WA, which have either been identified to a specific group of cars, don't have builder/year info, or which remain unidentified:

3. This car was identified by Jerry as a SP barber shop lounge from the #2932-#2934 series: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3905831. Currently used as part of a restaurant in Elbe, WA. Does anyone know which one of the three it is?

4. This coach is stored at the Mount Rainier Scenic yard in Mineral, WA, stenciled as BA&P #441; the trucks are stamped D&RGW. I have no further info on this car: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905885

The Mount Rainier Scenic acquired at least 6 ex-CP #22xx-series coaches from the British Columbia Provincial Museum which were formerly used with CP Royal Hudson #2860, three of which I have so far identified:

CP 68 seat coach #2290 reconfigured to 56 seat parlor-kitchen #6601 (1958) sold to BCPM Brandywine Falls (1973) to MRSR and modified to open air coach #541 Clopen: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906651 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906408

CP 68 seat coach #2267 sold to BCPM D'Arcy (1973) to MRSR #685: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906039 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906037

CP 68 seat coach #2296 sold to BCPM Sundance (1973) to MRSR #684

The three unidentified cars are:

5. MRSR #582 Morton: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906010 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906024

6. MRSR #583 New Reliance: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905980 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906009

7. MRSR #584 Eatonville: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905957 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905979

MRSR also acquired 3 ex-SP 96 seat Commute coaches from the OP&E whose #20xx-series numbers are unknown. Does anybody know the SP #20xx-series numbers?

8. 1 of the 3 was rebuilt to an open air coach, MRSR #681: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906035

9. MRSR #901 Elbe: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906418 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906678

10. MRSR #902 Mineral: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906743, http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906421 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906707

Other cars at Elbe and Park Junction:

11. There is an unidentified open platform observation which is currently stored on the wye at Park Junction: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906044

12. UP modernized heavyweight diner, lettered as Mount Rainier RR Dining Company (MRSX) #481 Lewis: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906296. Stored in Elbe with 2 ex-RDG cars from the American Freedom Train (AFT #203 and #205), which are also lettered MRSX. Does anybody know which UP diner this is?

13. Heavyweight diner or lounge currently used as part of the restaurant in Elbe: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906354. Does anybody know the history of this car?

14. Also, does anybody have the builder/year info for NP baggage-express #1517? Currently stored in MRSR Mineral yard: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906026

15. There is a NP 8DXR-6RM-4DB (8DXR-6RM-3DB-1C) sleeper in Portland, OR, which I have not been able to identify: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3908749

There are several NP cars for which I do not have the full history or builder/year info:

16. NP coach (Pullman, 1923) reconfigured to café coach #1681 (1957) sold to Lake Whatcom RY (1968). Does anybody know the original coach number?

17. NP baggage #1573 sold to private ownership and located on the Battle Ground, Yacolt & Chelatchie Prairie RR. Does anybody know the builder/year?

18. NP lounge coach #1151 (Pullman, 1915) reconfigured to 58 seat coach #1361 to BN to Hively to Northwest RY Museum (1989). Does anybody know which year the #1151 was reconfigured to #1361? (Sometime in the 1930's.)

Moving on...

19. SP&S business car #99 sold to Monte Holm (1970??) and formerly located at Holm's House of Poverty Museum in Moses Lake, WA, with Alaska RR #557. At last report this car has been moved from that location, I do not know if it is still in Moses Lake or elsewhere. Does anybody know the full history of this car?

20. GN heavyweight located at Cashmere Museum & Pioneer Village, Cashmere, WA. Photo by Lindsay Korst: http://www.gngoat.org/cash8.jpg (click once to enlarge). Trainorders thread with Brian Ambrose photo: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,2222046. Brian Ambrose blog post with photos: http://scenicsubblog.qstation.org/2010/06/30/sunny-day-at-cashmere-6-26-10/

The Chehalis-Centralia RR acquired 3 UP modernized coaches, numbers unknown:

21. 1 of the 3 was rebuilt to an open air coach and named Mount St. Helens: https://www.flickr.com/photos/61200714@N05/14582607639/sizes/h/ (Joel Hawthorn photo)

22. One car is configured as a table car for lunch and dinner service as the #601 City of Chehalis: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7370/11759329066_5e3b5b6514_o.jpg and https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2812/11758571905_e3895efe72_o.jpg (Zack W photos) (click once to enlarge)

23. One car is configured as a coach with a concessions counter as the City of Centralia: https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6021/5992216112_06c803b4e2_o.jpg (likeyesterday photo) (click once to enlarge)

Moving on...

24. George Lavacot owns an SP baggage car converted to MofW, located in Independence, OR: http://www.brian894x4.com/images/VSRR022.jpg and http://www.brian894x4.com/images/VSRR016.jpg (Brian McCamish photos). Anybody know the number/car series of this car?

There are 2 SP PC&F-built #67xx-series economy baggage cars stored on the Coos Bay line, at the time of the photos the line was still owned by the Central Oregon & Pacific, now owned by the Port of Coos Bay as the Coos Bay Rail Link. Does anybody know the numbers of either of these cars?

25. One car is located in Canary, OR: http://www.brian894x4.com/images/CORPcanary03.jpg, http://www.brian894x4.com/images/CORPcanary04.jpg, http://www.brian894x4.com/images/CORPcanary05.jpg and http://www.brian894x4.com/images/CORPcanary07.jpg (Brian McCamish photos)

26. One car is located at the yard in Coos Bay: http://www.brian894x4.com/images/CORPCoosBay07.jpg (Brian McCamish photos)

Moving on...

27. The Wallowa Union RR owns a GN 60 seat coach from the 1947 Empire Builder (P-S, Lot #6718, Plan #7495) as WURR #2636: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1957312 (Jordan DeCloedt photo). Anybody know the GN number of this car?

28. The Southern Oregon Chapter NRHS owns a SP Harriman diner converted to SPMW #7186 (in my notes I have this car as SPMW #7186, the photo shows the number as #718, although in the photo by Jordan Iverson, it appears the number might be #7185, not #7186): http://www.soc-nrhs.org/whitecity/DIner-onCORP-1tm.jpg (Todd Montgomery photo), http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/spmw/passenger/7186_spmw-david_lange.jpg (David Lange photo), and http://www.flickr.com/photos/jc_iverson/465792045 (Jordan Iverson photo). Anybody know the history/car series of this diner?

29. UP still has a few ex-SP cars assigned to MofW on the Natron Cutoff (Cascade Summit), including a Pullman 12S-1DR sleeper converted to SPMW #7118: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2238107 (Marty Bernard photo). I posted a thread regarding the Clover Blossom and this car in August 2013: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35430. Does anybody know the identity of this sleeper?

30. Train Mountain in Chiloquin, OR, has a NYC 10RM-6DB River-series sleeper (P-S, Lot #6790, Plan #4123, 1949) painted as CN and named Victoria: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3678/11445313485_069478f387_o.jpg and https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7322/11445366684_7526d2a0bc_o.jpg (Zack W photos) (click once to enlarge). Does anybody know which one of the 20 cars sold to CN in 1965 this is?

31. The SP depot in Springfield, OR, has a PRR Class BM70KA (rebuilt from BM70D) RPO-baggage: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2587926 (Al Sollinger photo). Does anybody know the number of this car?

32. & 33. The Pacific Northwest Chapter NRHS owns 2 ex-MBTA, nee-B&M 94 seat RDC-9's (Budd, Lot #9689-187, 1956). Does anybody know the numbers of these two cars?

34. & 35. The Northern Pacific RY Museum in Toppenish, WA, owns 2 NP #59x-series 56 seat chairs (P-S, Lot #6739, Plan #7509, 1946): http://www.nprymuseum.org/images/bnsftamper.jpg and http://www.nprymuseum.org/images/loadingdocktrack.jpg. Does anybody know the numbers of these two cars?

36. Also visible in the first of the above two photos, the NPRM also owns an NYNH&H Osgood-Bradley baggage-buffet lounge-(parlor) (P-S, Lot #W6788, Plan #W46610, 1948) that at one time was also owned by the Utica & Mohawk Chapter NRHS and John Birmingham-Boulder Scientific. (I think John Birmingham owned this car before Utica & Mohawk, but I'm not sure.) Does anybody know the number of this car?

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

4. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:25 am 

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Rainier Rails wrote:
1. In the entry for the restaurant (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc-orginfo.html#Orient%20Express%20Restaurant), the Hicks-Hakner database lists an unidentified MU commuter coach: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3994370


Well, unfortunately that's not the car that I had thought was the MU car in Andy's Diner/Orient Express. At one point I had been sent a photo (supposedly) taken inside the building showing what looked to be the end of an MP-54, so that was why I theorized that there was an electric MU car somewhere in the structure. Not having been there, it appears I was mistaken; the car in the photo looks more like an early steel coach and is almost surely not an MU car.

I've attached an aerial view of Andy's Diner (hopefully this works!) with the five railroad cars I know about highlighted. The Pullman obs car is in yellow, the unknown steel coach in blue, the two OE interurban cars in green and the Harriman car in red. Assuming that there aren't any other cars buried in the structure, I'd say it's a safe bet that I was in error about the MU car.


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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:36 am 

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Rainier Rails wrote:



4. This coach is stored at the Mount Rainier Scenic yard in Mineral, WA, stenciled as BA&P #441; the trucks are stamped D&RGW. I have no further info on this car: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905885





Don't know for sure, but my guess is that this is a sister car to the one which I am part owner of, and which is located at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana (see photo attached). Note the similarities in window placement. It also has the step extensions. Car was built by Pullman in 1910 for the Western Pacific and later went back to the Denver & Rio Grande. The car has three D&RGW stamped trucks (the other one is stamped D&SL). Somewhere I have a list of where all these cars ended up and if I can ever find it, I'll post it here.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Thanks, Frank and Les, for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:43 pm 

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The CPR coaches were built in 1948 by Canadian Car & Foundry under CPR equipment order # 3587.

The following 4 cars are possibilities for MHSR

BCR ALEXANDRIA, orig CPR 2286

BCR CLINTON, orig CPR 2252

BCR LONE BUTE, orig CPR 2242

BCR QUESNEL, orig CPR 2271

Using Trackside Guide, the cars left BCR about 1994.

A note of interest BCR and Algoma Central installed the individual rain gutters over the windows.

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:20 pm 
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Thanks, Richard, for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
4. This coach is stored at the Mount Rainier Scenic yard in Mineral, WA, stenciled as BA&P #441; the trucks are stamped D&RGW. I have no further info on this car: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905885
Les Beckman wrote:
Don't know for sure, but my guess is that this is a sister car to the one which I am part owner of, and which is located at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana (see photo attached). Note the similarities in window placement. It also has the step extensions. Car was built by Pullman in 1910 for the Western Pacific and later went back to the Denver & Rio Grande. The car has three D&RGW stamped trucks (the other one is stamped D&SL). Somewhere I have a list of where all these cars ended up and if I can ever find it, I'll post it here.


Well, after doing some more research, I think I can narrow this down:

Info from:

D&RGW #101 Abraham Lincoln website: http://www.pullman-car.com/index.html

"David.....and throwing stones" thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35746, in which Brian Norden posted the WP car diagram for #301-#340 on page #2.

First of all, the Lot consisted of a total of 51 84 seat coaches, built between July and October 1910. 40 of the 51 cars were initially leased to the WP as #301-#340, and the other 11 cars were owned by D&RG as #888-#898. After several years, 25 of the WP cars were transferred back to the D&RG, all renumbered by August 25th, 1918. The remaining 15 cars were transferred back to the D&RG between November 1923 and January 1924. The renumbering from WP to D&RG was not consecutive, the 40 cars were numbered from #899 to #950. The other 11 cars were eventually renumbered into this range. At least three of the cars that were formerly leased to the WP were later renumbered within this number range (see below).

To add to this, the WP car diagram shows that 12 of the 40 cars had a smoking compartment (with 24 of the 84 seats) at the men's end of the car: #301, #315, #322, #323, #327, #329, #331, #333, #334, #336, #339, and #340. I don't know if any of the 11 cars owned by D&RG had smoking compartments.

Also, in the "throwing stones" thread, Les Beckman states that most of these cars later had A/C installed, the cars that did not receive A/C were used for extra capacity and were later sold to Algoma Central, including the car that Les now owns, #899/#930. Note that this car would have been formerly leased to the WP, and was therefore renumbered twice, once upon return to D&RG and again at a later date (see below).

Now, the car located in Mineral, WA, as BA&P #441, still has the partition for the men's smoking compartment and did not have A/C installed, so this would (likely) be WP to D&RG(W) to AC to BA&P.

Looking at Chris VanderHeide's Algoma Central passenger car roster (http://www.trainweb.org/algoma/proster.html), Jerry LaBoda's website, the D&RGW #101 website, and the "throwing stones" thread, here's what I can piece together:

Algoma Central acquired 15 of these cars as #400-#414:

The numbering histories for several of these 15 cars are known:

WP/D&RG number unknown to D&RGW #935 to AC #405 (2nd).

WP #302 to D&RG #899 to D&RGW #930 (2nd renumbering) to AC #407 to BVRR #407 to MIGN #407 to KLS&C #950 to Les Beckman.

WP #334 (with smoking compartment) to D&RG #946 to D&RGW #954 (2nd renumbering) to AC #408 retired in 1980 and sold to Prairie Dog Central #101.

WP #313 to D&RG #918 to D&RGW #951 (2nd renumbering) to AC #409 retired in 1980 and sold to Prairie Dog Central #102 (not used in service).

WP/D&RG number unknown to D&RGW #927 to AC #410 to MofW #10660.

WP/D&RG number unknown to D&RGW #922 to AC #411 to MofW #10661.

In addition, AC #400 (WP/D&RGW number history unknown) is listed as retired in 1973.

D&RGW converted two of these coaches to business cars:

D&RG #895 to D&RGW #926 to business car #101 (1929) retired and sold to Golden West Rail Tours #101 (1964) sold to Thomas Pearson and Craig Rasmussen #101 The Prospector (#800013) (Los Angeles) (when??) sold to Curtis Andrews #101 Abraham Lincoln (#800013) (Othello, WA) (1983)

D&RG #893 to D&RGW #924 to business car #102 (2nd) (1930) retired and sold to Harris Allen (Tucson) (1964) sold to Clifford Thomas (Minneapolis) (1965) sold to Charles Belgarde (Plymouth, MN) (1971) sold to Carolina Southern (when??) sold to Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande (SLRG) (2012) leased to Central New York Chapter NRHS and moved to the New York State Fairgrounds (2013)

So, does anybody know how many/which of the cars with smoking compartments were sold to Algoma Central?

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:29 pm 

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Ted -

Here is what I have for the cars going to the Algoma Central with the D&RGW shown first and then the number it was given on the AC:

931 to 402
907 to 403
917 to 404
935 to 405
950 to 406
930 to 407
954 to 408
951 to 409

This list was sent to me by Charles Albi and is from a publication entitled "Railway Passenger Car Annual Volume II - 1975" by W. David Randall. Mr. Albi actually worked for the D&RGW for a good number of years and knew a lot about their passenger cars.

Note that this list does not show any other cars in the 400-414 Algoma Central series except for the 402 through 409 shown above. That is not to say that those cars weren't there. I asked Mr. Albi about my car (930/407) specifically so he only sent me the copy of the page that covered these (and some other Algoma Central cars) on page 38 of that fore mentioned Randall book. Page 39 could have had additional Algoma Central cars.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Thanks, Les, for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:37 am 
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Found some D&RGW passenger car diagrams of these 1910 coaches:

1. Diagram P-56: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p056.jpg

Consists of coaches #961, #965, #967, and #970, with ice A/C, reduced to 54 seat coach-9 seat smoker in 1934.

2. Diagram P-57: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p057.jpg

Consists of chair #976, with ice A/C, reduced to 48 seat chair-7 seat smoker in 1937.

3. Diagram P-58: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p058.jpg

Consists of chairs #976-#979, with ice A/C, reduced to 48 seat chair-9 seat smoker in 1937.

4. Diagram P-59: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p059.jpg

Consists of chairs #980 and #981, with ice A/C, reduced to 48 seat chair with smoker and women's lounge in 1936.

5. Diagram P-60: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p060.jpg

Consists of chairs #982 and #983, with ice A/C, reduced to 48 seat chair with buffet (kitchen), women's lounge, and conductor's desk in 1936.

6. Diagram P-61: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p061.jpg

Consists of chair #985, with ice A/C, reduced to 44 seat chair with smoker and women's lounge in 1937.

7. Diagram P-62: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p062a.jpg

Consists of chairs #1005-#1010, with ice A/C, modernized windows, reduced to 48 seat chair with women's lounge, listed as rebuilt in 1934, 1935, and 1937, and remodeled in 1935-1937.

8. Diagram P-63: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p063a.jpg

Consists of coaches #1006, #1009, and #1010, with ice A/C, modernized windows, reduced to 54 seat coach with women's lounge, listed as rebuilt in 1934, and remodeled in 1935-1937.

9. Diagram P-64: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p064.jpg

Consists of chairs #1000-#1004, with ice A/C, rebuilt roof and skirting, reduced to 50 seat chair with women's lounge in 1939.

10. Diagram P-3: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/images/p003.jpg

Consists of lounge observation #851 Granite Canon, with ice A/C, rebuilt to 45 seat lounge observation in 1929.

Diagrams located on Rio Grande Modeling & Historical Society website: http://www.drgw.org/

Diagram page: http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/folios/index.htm

In addition, the heavyweight passenger car page (http://www.drgw.org/data/passenger/steel/heavywt.htm) has the following info:

#906 was lettered for Ski Train use in c. 1949.

#950-#954 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1937.

#951 and #954 were sold to Algoma Central in 1949.

#960-#979 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1934, 1935, and 1937.

#978 was rebuilt to #X-200 in August 1951.

#980-#985 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1936 and 1937, and rebuilt again in 1943.

#932 and #933 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1939 to #1000 and #1001, which were retired in March 1968; #1001 went to Rifle, CO.

#923, #945, and a third car were renumbered and rebuilt in 1939 to #1002-#1004, which were retired before 1967.

#1005 and #1006 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1955.

#1007-#1009 were renumbered and rebuilt in 1956.

#1010 was renumbered and rebuilt in 1957.

#912 was renumbered/named and rebuilt in 1929 to observation lounge #851 Granite Canon, further rebuilt in 1943 and 1945, and retired in August 1960.

#936 was named and rebuilt in 1929 to observation lounge Spanish Fork Canon, further rebuilt in 1934, 1943, and 1945, and retired in September 1953.

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:00 am 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
The Chehalis-Centralia RR acquired 3 UP modernized coaches, numbers unknown:

21. 1 of the 3 was rebuilt to an open air coach and named Mount St. Helens: https://www.flickr.com/photos/61200714@N05/14582607639/sizes/h/ (Joel Hawthorn photo)

22. One car is configured as a table car for lunch and dinner service as the #601 City of Chehalis: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7370/11759329066_5e3b5b6514_o.jpg and https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2812/11758571905_e3895efe72_o.jpg (Zack W photos) (click once to enlarge)

23. One car is configured as a coach with a concessions counter as the City of Centralia: https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6021/5992216112_06c803b4e2_o.jpg (likeyesterday photo) (click once to enlarge)


In looking at photos of UP modernized chairs, I'm wondering if these are ex-OSL. There are no photos of the 5 modernized OSL chairs linked to on Jerry's website, however, all other groups of UP modernized chairs (excluding the 4 LA&SL cars) have a window arrangement that does not match the cars now owned by Chehalis-Centralia.

This narrows the options somewhat...

The 5 OSL chairs were:

#707/#537 sold 1972 to Purdy Company

#708/#538 sold 1972 to R. Sperry to Golden Gate RR Museum

#709/#539 sold 1972 to R. Sperry

#710/#540 sold 1972 to R. Sperry

#711/#541 sold 1972 to R. Sperry

I'm inclined to think that the 3 cars now owned by Chehalis-Centralia are the #539-#541. Does anybody know if a private party acquired all four cars from Sperry, with one going to GGRM and the other 3 sold to Chehalis-Centralia?

The reason I'm discounting the 4 LA&SL cars is this thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35991

Sources:

1. Don Strack's UP passenger car roster pages:

___1a. Main index: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

___1b. The OSL modernized chairs are on this page: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-numbered-1.php

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
This coach is stored at the Mount Rainier Scenic yard in Mineral, WA, stenciled as BA&P #441; the trucks are stamped D&RGW. I have no further info on this car
Les Beckman wrote:
Don't know for sure, but my guess is that this is a sister car to the one which I am part owner of, and which is located at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana
Rainier Rails wrote:
"David.....and throwing stones" thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35746

First of all, the Lot consisted of a total of 51 84 seat coaches, built between July and October 1910. 40 of the 51 cars were initially leased to the WP as #301-#340, and the other 11 cars were owned by D&RG as #888-#898.

Also, in the "throwing stones" thread, Les Beckman states that most of these cars later had A/C installed, the cars that did not receive A/C were used for extra capacity and were later sold to Algoma Central, including the car that Les now owns, #899/#930.

Algoma Central acquired 15 of these cars as #400-#414:

The numbering histories for several of these 15 cars are known:

WP #334 (with smoking compartment) to D&RG #946 to D&RGW #954 (2nd renumbering) to AC #408 retired in 1980 and sold to Prairie Dog Central #101.

WP #313 to D&RG #918 to D&RGW #951 (2nd renumbering) to AC #409 retired in 1980 and sold to Prairie Dog Central #102 (not used in service).
Les Beckman wrote:
Here is what I have for the cars going to the Algoma Central with the D&RGW shown first and then the number it was given on the AC:

931 to 402
907 to 403
917 to 404
935 to 405
950 to 406
930 to 407
954 to 408
951 to 409

This list was sent to me by Charles Albi and is from a publication entitled "Railway Passenger Car Annual Volume II - 1975" by W. David Randall. Mr. Albi actually worked for the D&RGW for a good number of years and knew a lot about their passenger cars.

Note that this list does not show any other cars in the 400-414 Algoma Central series except for the 402 through 409 shown above. That is not to say that those cars weren't there. I asked Mr. Albi about my car (930/407) specifically so he only sent me the copy of the page that covered these (and some other Algoma Central cars) on page 38 of that fore mentioned Randall book. Page 39 could have had additional Algoma Central cars.


Update 1/30/2015:

I now have digital scans of several of the RPC Annuals, and checking "RPC Annual Vol. 3" (1976), only the #402-#409 are listed. So I'm thinking that by 1975/76, when Volumes 2 & 3 were published, that #410-#414 had been removed from revenue service. In addition, #403 and #408 are listed in Vol. 3 as boarding cars, not coaches, while #402, #404-#407, and #409 are listed as 80 seat coaches; the #403 and #408 are listed as having 80 seats when acquired from D&RGW, so it appears that the capacity was reduced from 84 to 80 by the Rio Grande.

Also, checking the online addition of Bytown Railway Society's Canadian Trackside Guide, it lists that WP #334 was transferred to D&RGW in January 1924 as #946, renumbered in February 1936 to #954, sold in July 1949 to Algoma Central as #408, retired and sold in January 1980 to the Prairie Dog Central as #101, and sold in September 1993 to the Manitoba Children's Museum in Winnipeg (located in the former Grand Trunk Pacific enginehouse). Interestingly, the Trackside Guide lists the #101 as a combine, and that it was a coach on the Prairie Dog Central. So did the Children's Museum have the car modified in 1993, or was this done when it was in use by the PDC?

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:00 pm 

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Ted -

Concerning the 80 seats vs. 84 seats mentioned above. The car has 80 "walkover" seats and there were also two aisle-facing "long" seats (one in each corner of the car opposite the restrooms). Perhaps this is where the other 4 seats came from to get 84 seats.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Les Beckman wrote:
Ted -

Concerning the 80 seats vs. 84 seats mentioned above. The car has 80 "walkover" seats and there were also two aisle-facing "long" seats (one in each corner of the car opposite the restrooms). Perhaps this is where the other 4 seats came from to get 84 seats.

Les


Ah-ha.

These corner seats were a common feature in higher-capacity walkover coaches during the all-steel heavyweight era, and it was also common practice for the railroads to later remove either 1 or both of these seats to make room for water coolers, conductor's desks, or the like, so I'm guessing this is exactly what the Rio Grande did. Unfortunately the Rio Grande diagram folios I have and the scans available online do not include a diagram for any one of the unmodified cars which were later sold to Algoma Central, so I don't know exactly what D&RGW replaced these seats with, or when.

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 Post subject: Re: Mystery Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:26 am 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
The Mount Rainier Scenic acquired at least 6 ex-CP #22xx-series coaches from the British Columbia Provincial Museum which were formerly used with CP Royal Hudson #2860, three of which I have so far identified:

CP 68 seat coach #2290 reconfigured to 56 seat parlor-kitchen #6601 (1958) sold to BCPM Brandywine Falls (1973) to MRSR and modified to open air coach #541 Clopen: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906651 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906408

CP 68 seat coach #2267 sold to BCPM D'Arcy (1973) to MRSR #685: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906039 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906037

CP 68 seat coach #2296 sold to BCPM Sundance (1973) to MRSR #684

The three unidentified cars are:

5. MRSR #582 Morton: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906010 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906024

6. MRSR #583 New Reliance: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905980 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3906009

7. MRSR #584 Eatonville: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905957 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3905979
parlourcar wrote:
The CPR coaches were built in 1948 by Canadian Car & Foundry under CPR equipment order # 3587.

The following 4 cars are possibilities for MHSR

BCR ALEXANDRIA, orig CPR 2286

BCR CLINTON, orig CPR 2252

BCR LONE BUTE, orig CPR 2242

BCR QUESNEL, orig CPR 2271

Using Trackside Guide, the cars left BCR about 1994.


Checking the online addition of the Trackside Guide, the Quesnel is listed as owned by the West Coast RY Association in Squamish, BC (since 2000), meaning that the Alexandria, Clinton, and Lone Butte were sold to MRSR along with the Sundance, D'Arcy, and Brandywine Falls. Now the question is, which ones were renamed to which?

Source:

Bytown Railway Society's Canadian Trackside Guide, section for British Columbia, Northwest Territories, and Yukon Territory (PDF document): http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/docs/Preserved%20BC-NWT-YT.pdf

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