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Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41431
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Author:  Trainkid456 [ Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Hi,

Just curious, what type of whistle did the NKP 4-6-4 Hudsons have?

Thanks,
Thomas Dyrek

Author:  dinwitty [ Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

I have a recording on disc of the NHRS run behind an NKP hudson, they did not have the usual berk whistle, I don't recall if I narrowed down what whistle, but I have a model project of a hudson and listened to the recording and selected the nearest sound on the decoder.

I may have asked the whistle website owner but have to check my emails, later on that unless someone else chimes up (pun unexpected...8-D)

Author:  dinwitty [ Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

I found my decoder sheet, I set my model decoder on whistle 20,(QSI- Titan-U) this is a NYC 5 chime. This makes sense as the first NKP hudsons were ALCO built and ALCO also built the hudson for the NYC. So they may have been delivered with such a whistle. I am still asking around but if I had the book, The Engine's Moan, I might know straight up, I am still hunting down this book. If I find more solid info, I'll respond again, I changed the decoder on my model for technical reasons, but I now own 2 of these models, one is getting full working headlight/mars/marker lights/numberboards/anything else I may think of.

Author:  Trainkid456 [ Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

dinwitty wrote:
I found my decoder sheet, I set my model decoder on whistle 20,(QSI- Titan-U) this is a NYC 5 chime. This makes sense as the first NKP hudsons were ALCO built and ALCO also built the hudson for the NYC. So they may have been delivered with such a whistle. I am still asking around but if I had the book, The Engine's Moan, I might know straight up, I am still hunting down this book. If I find more solid info, I'll respond again, I changed the decoder on my model for technical reasons, but I now own 2 of these models, one is getting full working headlight/mars/marker lights/numberboards/anything else I may think of.


Thanks.

TD

Author:  Pat Fahey [ Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Hi
I have the book The Engine's Moan, I have to disagree with the last post, just because the locomotive is being built by Alco, and is a Hudson type. Does not automatically mean the locomotive will receive a certain type of whistle, because the locomotive is being built by ALCO.
The railroad decides which type of whistle the said locomotive will carry, how do you know the locomotive did not carry a Nathan 6 chime, instead of a 5 chime. it is even possible that the locomotive carried a single one-note whistle, or a three chime whistle?
As locomotives when into the shops for repairs, they did not always return with the same whistle they came in with. This could have been because the said whistle was not repaired yet, or other reasons.
So to get back to the book, The Engine's Moan, on page 33, it does say that Nathan 6 chimes were used on the berks, and other motive power, but it not say which types.
There is one NKP Hudson left at the Museum of Transport in St. Louis maybe she still carries her original whistle?

Author:  dinwitty [ Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Pat, I am working on it. I emailed the St Louis museum asking the question. Again I have the recording of an NKP hudson on an NHRS trip and I am comparing sounds. I am disappointed with the details from the book. I know the Berk Whistle and I know the Hudson whistle by sound.
I am only throwing suggestion out there what may happen when the engine made delivery.
It sounds like for now I can only figure out the whistle by its sound for now as hard direct information is being elusive.

Author:  dinwitty [ Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

I am still stuck on using the NYC 5 chime as my choice for the Hudson as there is no other selection possible.

listening to the Hudson recording again, then hearing some Berk Whistles, I heard 2 differrent tonalities on Berks, then I heard the whistle on a mike which sounded more like the Hudson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnhNPNP64ik

This is the closest I can hear for now on a representation of the whistle. Still waiting for responses from multiple sources.

I am going to go forward and install the decoder on my 2nd Hudson and check its whistles.

Author:  Pat Fahey [ Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Hi All
This whistle post is getting interesting, I would like to add something I have on typewritten by Past President of the NYCSHS by Mr. Charlies M. Smith.The letter is dated September 27th, 1979.
I did ask Mr. Smith what type of whistles that the NYC Hudson did carry, and according to his letter they did not carry Nathan 5 chimes.
Attachment:
File comment: From a Letter from Past NYCSHS President Mr. Charlies M. Smith the letter is dated Sept 27, 1979.
NYC Letter.jpg # 3.jpg
NYC Letter.jpg # 3.jpg [ 93.72 KiB | Viewed 2513 times ]

Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Pat -

Thanks for posting your note from the late Charles M. Smith of the NYCSHS. It reminded me of the occasions when Mr. Smith was able to furnish info on various New York Central questions I had. He was always very generous when asked. I believe he also had a very big hand in the preservation of NYC 0-6-0 #6894 which is now at Whitewater Valley in Connersville, Indiana.


Les

Author:  misterwandle [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

NKP 4-6-4 whistles

The Nickel Plate Road owned eight 4-6-4 Hudson-type steam locomotives, 4 constructed by Alco Brooks in 1927, and an additional 4 constructed by Lima Locomotive Works during 1929. As delivered, the whistles used on the Alco locos were brass, Nathan, six-chime step-top models. These whistles had a threaded section below the bowl that screwed into a separate brass fitting that used a circular flange to mount the whistles onto the engines’ steam domes. The whistles were mounted at a 30-degree angle to the horizontal, therefore, much of the blast of steam was directed along the boiler instead of being directed upward at a 90-degree angle from the horizontal. The same whistle mounting arrangement was used also on NKP’s Alco Schenectady 2-8-4 Berkshire locomotives when they were built during 1934.

Later, NKP decided to install sheet metal cowls onto its whistles to deflect the steam whenever a 4-6-4 or 2-8-4 whistle was blown. NKP’s Alco 4-6-4s and Alco 2-8-4s received homemade, sheet metal deflector cowls that used a circular steel strap wrapped around the whistle bowl and tightened (somewhat like a huge hose clamp) to keep the cowl in place. NKP Lima-built 4-6-4s and 2-8-4s used the same 6-chime Nathan whistles as their Alco brethren, but the whistles used on the Lima-built locos had a trio of small tabs that had been cast into the outside edges of the whistle bowls where the bottom of the sheet metal cowl was bolted onto the whistle. Those homemade cowls added to the original, Nathan, six-chime whistles on NKP’s Alco-built 4-6-4s and 2-8-4s must have been successful, as for the rest of their careers these locos used the bolted-on sheet metal cowls.

During 1979 I was invited to see the “train parts” in storage at Luntz Iron & Metal’s legendary scrap yard in Canton, Ohio. The yard superintendent told me that Luntz had always sold locomotive parts to collectors, and recognized that the steam locomotive was a fast-disappearing entity in the United States. Luntz used polished loco bells as giveaways to good customers, and decided to keep some of the bells and whistles from the last steamers that entered Luntz for scrapping. These steamers happened to be from the Nickel Plate Road, and they were being delivered to Luntz for scrapping as late as 1064.

On the appointed day, I was led through a doorway and into a darkened interior room. When the light switch was turned on, I was stunned at the sight. The floor was covered with a veritable carpet of steam locomotive bells and whistles! There, before me, were 23 locomotive whistles stacked like cord wood in metal scrap boxes, including 15 NKP steam whistles (11 from NKP 2-8-4s, two from 0-8-0s, one from a Mike, and one from a 4-6-4), and eight W&LE standard whistles used on all classes of its steamers. There were also 38 steam locomotive bells, 22 in boiler-front mounts from NKP and W&LE 2-8-4s, and 16 “loose” bells without hangers or frames, and stacked-up like Dixie cups. (Some of these loose bells were found lying around the Luntz property, and were determined later to be from PRR, C&O and other Ohio railroads.) I inspected the treasure trove, made detailed notes and photos, and, except for telling two friends who were sworn to secrecy, kept the secret of “King Solomon’s Mines.”

Some 18 years later, one of my two confidants was selling an old diesel to Luntz, and asked them about those bells and whistles. Luntz claimed no such knowledge of the treasure, stating that all steam locomotive parts had disappeared (sold or scrapped) years and years ago. My friend persisted, and showed Luntz photos that I had made inside that treasure room 18 years earlier. Luntz contacted the then, long-retired plant manager who verified the existence of the bells and whistles in a secret room. “Secret room? What room?” The existence of this approximately 20’ x 20’ storage room was unknown because old copper pipes, steel rods and other long objects d’ scrap had been stacked in front of that sole doorway. Out-of-sight and out-of-mind for nearly two decades, nobody at Luntz knew the room even existed, let alone knowing what it contained.

Of course, my confidant was Jerry Jacobson, and he was able to purchase the entire lot of steam hardware. Those bells and whistles made great gifts for members of Jerry’s steam department. (He kept a very few bells and whistles, but none are for sale, so please do not contact the Age of Steam Roundhouse or me about acquiring something.) Jerry was curious about my inventory and bold statement that one of the whistles was from NKP 4-6-4 #171. I told him that I had used the process of elimination to make that claim, but Jerry was dubious. Years later he told me that his steam guys took apart that Luntz whistle, the one with the cowl bolted onto the bowl. When that added-on steel strap was removed, there, stamped into the whistle’s brass bowl, was the number “171.” I had made a pretty good deduction!

John B. Corns
Age of Steam Roundhouse

Author:  dinwitty [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

If you ever get the chance, mount that whistle somehow and blow it, and record it, post it up, I will try to get a clip of my recording and do the same.

Author:  John Risley [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

Very cool story. Best of holidays, John.

Author:  Ron Muldowney [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

As soon as I saw this topic, I just knew that my good friend, John B. Corns, would have the answer. John is an expert on both the W&LE and the NKP! I had heard rumors about this secret room many years ago and it is a great story!

Happy New Year and Best Wishes to all my friends in the preservation field!!

Ron

Author:  dinwitty [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nickel Plate 4-6-4 whistle

It seems you cant exactly identify whether an engine uses a 6 chime because it depends how its tuned.

http://steam-whistles.com/sounds/6chimes.html

the C&O vs NKP 765, the first whistle sounds like the hudson.

http://steam-whistles.com/sounds/5chimes.html

Carl Swansons sounds more like the berk whistles on my recording.

Just reminded my self I recorded 765 whistle during a test way back during restoration.

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