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 Post subject: Kansas City Southern- Surviving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
I’ve searched through many posts here on RYPN and just about every book and magazine article I can get my hands on regarding KCS’s passenger equipment. Much of the available information is getting old and equipment is sure to have changed hands. In an effort to compile a current list of surviving equipment, I would like to ask that all who have reliable knowledge of such equipment to please sound off with what you know. Current locations, ownership, status, and photos would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I can start with at least one piece of equipment that has been discussed here before. The Pullman 10 section solarium/obs “Mount Royal”, originally the “Malatha”, served as car #201 on KCS trains 15 and 16 between Shreveport and Port Arthur from 1948 until being replaced by streamlined lightweight grill or lounge/obs cars. Mount Royal is currently stabilized and awaiting restoration at the Railroad Museum of New England’s shop located in Thomaston, Connecticut.

I am aware of other survivors but would like to see updated information for them. Thanks again.

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Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


Last edited by Mount Royal on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
This is a list of surviving KCS passenger service equipment based on the information I have gathered from multiple sources. Not all of the information is current and much will require updates. If anyone has any current and reliable information regarding these cars, please comment. Current status, ownership, location, and photos are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

ACF Bag/RPO #6, originally Katy #225, former CGW #6, then to Smokey Hill Railway Historical Society. DST Systems of Kansas City bought the car from Smokey Hill. Mid America Car & Locomotive for external restoration. Currently displayed on the turntable at the former KCT Roundhouse.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #15, then MOW service, then Great Smokey Mountain in 1993. Converted to open air coach. Reported to be in service by Aaron S. of GSMR as of 12/18/17.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #16, then MOW service. Retired. Current status unknown.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #18, then MOW service. Retired. Current status unknown.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express Car #19 “Heavener”, originally- Car #17, then #17 in MOW service. Current KCS business train consist member. Tool car.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #19, then MOW service. Retired. Current status unknown.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #20, then MOW service, then Great Smokey Mountain in 1993. Converted to open air coach. Reported to be in service by Aaron S. of GSMR as of 12/18/17.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #21, originally- #71, then AMTRAK #1086, then #17077. MOW service. Reportedly sold.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #22, then MOW service, then Great Smokey Mountain in 1993. Converted to open air coach. Reported to be in service by Aaron S. of GSMR as of 12/18/17.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #23, originally- #74, then AMTRAK #1087, then #10092. Exhibit Car “Southern Belle”, then Adrian & Blissfield RR as power car. Mark D. of A&B reported this car was a victim of arson on May 17, 2014.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #24, originally- #75, then AMTRAK #1088, then #17074- MOW service. Reportedly used as storage at Niles, MI.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #25, then MOW service, then Great Smokey Mountain in 1993. Converted to open air coach. Reported to be in service by Aaron S. of GSMR as of 12/18/17.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #26, originally- #78, then AMTRAK #1089, then #17078- MOW service. Reportedly used as storage in Wilmington, DE.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #27, then MOW service, then Great Smokey Mountain in 1993. Converted to open air coach. Reported to be in service by Aaron S. of GSMR as of 12/18/17.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #28, then MOW service. Retired. Current status unknown.

Pullman Standard Bag/Express #29, then MOW service. Retired. Current status unknown.

Pullman Standard Heavyweight Bag/RPO #30, originally- #60. SHRHS, Owned by Charles Pitcher and Allen Maty. Moved to Midland in Baldwin City, Kansas in 1990 and is currently usable. The car is in good condition overall with its RPO interior intact as reported by A. Kinsley, GM of the Midland as of 12/15/2017.

ACF Bag/RPO/Dorm Car #34, originally- #67, then to private owner J. Murrietta, then to "All Aboard Ice Cream Co." to become an ice cream parlor in 2014. Located at 102 Castle Dr, Joplin, MO 64804 https://youtu.be/wycJ4ftAMkk

BUDD Lounge/Obs. Car #40, originally- NYC #50, then KCS #46. B&O Museum as MARC1 and finally B&O "Royal Blue". Car is regularly used as a first class car on the museum’s operational trains and is reported to be in great shape. Reported by H. Van Waes, Director of Operations for the B&O Museum on 1/11/18.

BUDD Lounge/Obs. Car #41, originally- NYC #51, then KCS #47. Southern Belle Antiques in Jackson, Louisiana.

BUDD Lounge/Obs. Car #42, originally- NYC #49, then KCS #45. Privately owned by Jon Clark. Currently located at the A&M car shops in Ft. Smith, AR for restoration to operation. Reported by the owner on 12/29/17.

BUDD Lounge/Obs. Car #43, originally- NYC #48, then KCS #44, then to Starlight 48, running under the AMTRAK number of 800146, then to Artrain in Ann Arbor, MI as ARTX 105. Sold to Robert Van Camp. Currently located on the property of the Durbin and Greenbrier in Belington, WV.

Pullman Standard Heavyweight Coach-Diner Car #52, then sold to Trinity Valley Museum, then to private owner. Car is located on a lot at the corner of TX (hwy)-24 and FM (farm road)-1528 in Klondike, Texas.

Pullman Standard Grill/Obs. Car #54, originally- “Kansas City”, then rebuilt by ACF in 1940 and renamed “Good Cheer”, then Houston RR Museum/ Gulf Coast NRHS. currently is stored at the Austin Steam Train Association's yard in Cedar Park, Texas. Currently on lease and at Austin Steam Train Assoc. in Cedar Park, TX for restoration. Owner is Texas Railroading Heritage Museum/ Gulf Coast NRHS, Tomball, TX. Verified by Tom Marsh,
Vice President of the Gulf Coast Chapter - National Railway Historical Society, Inc. 12/22/17.

Pullman Standard Grill/Obs #55 “Hospitality”, originally-“Shreveport”. Currently owned by SHRHS and located on the Belton, Grandview, and Kansas City RR in Belton, MO. Reported to be in “poor” condition with a weak floor and leaky roof. Not in use. Static display only. Report comes from BG&KC personnel on 12/15/2017.

ACF 36 Seat Dining Car #56 “Mountain Lodge”, originally- #58. Current KCS business train consist member. Renamed “Jackson”.

ACF 36 Seat Dining Car #59 “Old Plantation”, originally- #57, then AMTRAK #8044. Currently located on Branson Scenic RR property and lettered for BSR. Owned by T. Johnson and used for storage. 01/08/18.

Baggage car #80 (builder unknown) Reportedly purchased from ATSF in 1964, off roster by 1968. Sold to San Angelo Tank Car where it was located minus trucks. Current location unknown.

Pullman Standard/Darby Business Car #99 “New Orleans”, former TOLMAK, originally- “Monte Cristo”, then- CGW #100. Current KCS business train consist member.

Barney & Smith Business car #99 “Geraldyne”, originally- KCP&G 200, then KCS car #100. In 2008, this car was moved to Kansas City Union Station for display. KCUS later sold the car and it was reported in 2015 to be listed on Ozark Mountain Railcar's website for sale. Contacted OMR on 12/21/17, car did not sell and listing was removed. Currently lettered for Texas South Eastern #100 and located across from 2100 Walnut St. Kansas City, MO.

Pullman Standard Business Car #101, originally- MKT #402. Reportedly sold to a private owner in Tulsa, circa 1968. Painted and re-lettered for Mallard Transportation "RPCX 101". Moved to Fayetteville, Arkansas for restoration in 2004. Reportedly located in Union Pacific’s East Yard in San Antonio, TX.

Pullman Standard 10 section Solarium/Obs Car #201. Originally- “Malatha”, then “Mount Royal”. Pullman to KCS 1948. Served until the arrival of the four former NYC BUDD tavern-obs. cars. Now owned by Railroad Museum of New England. Stored, stabilized, and awaiting restoration in Thomaston, CT.

ACF 60 seat Chair Car #262, originally- 246. Later- LIRR 8564 (8/1968), SHRHS- 1976. 1986- owned by Ross Bryan, 2000- donated to the Midland in Baldwin City, KS. Reported to be poor condition by A. Kinsley, GM of the Midland as of 12/15/2017.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #270, then to CNJ as #5340, then to C&NW #5340, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400003 “Honey Bee”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #271, then to CNJ as #5341, then to C&NW as #412, RNCX “Lake Forest” luxury sleeper, then to UP business fleet. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #272, then to CNJ as #5342, then to C&NW as #413, RNCX “Lake Bluff” luxury sleeper, then to UP business fleet. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #273, then to CNJ as #5343, then to C&NW #414, RNCX “Lake Norman” luxury sleeper, then NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400007 “Channel Bass”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #274, then to CNJ as #5344, then to C&NW #425, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400002 “Dogwood”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #275, then to CNJ as #5345.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #276, then to CNJ as #5346, then to C&NW #411, RNCX 400402 luxury sleeper “Lake Mattamuskeet”, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400006 “Plot Hound”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #277, then to CNJ as 5347, then to C&NW #5347, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400001 “Cardinal”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #278, then to CNJ as #5348, then to C&NW #5348, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400004 “Long Leaf Pine”. In service.

Pullman Standard 72 Seat Chair Car #279, then to CNJ as #5349, then to C&NW #5349, then to NCDOT as 66 seater coach #400005 “Scotch Bonnet”. In service.

Pullman Standard Business Car “Kay-see”, 1995- renamed “Kansas City”, now “Harry S. Truman”- On display under canopy at KCS Headquarters. Kansas City, MO.

ACF Business Car (Louisiana & Arkansas) “Magnolia” Harvey C. Couch's business car. In 1970 the Couch family located the car and purchased it for scrap value in Louisiana. It was brought to Couchwood and restored in 1971. Today it sits on Couchwood’s property for use with family and guests. Couchwood is the Couch family estate and is located at 601 Couchwood Rd, Hot Springs National Park, AR 71901 The car is available for rental. http://couchwood.org/houses/magnolia/

Pullman Standard Parlor Lounge Car #501, originally Pullman “Wallingford”, then Wabash “Wayfarer”. Off roster in 1962. Sold to the Reader where it was mis-identified as #500 “Rambler”. Sold to the Valley Railroad around 1970 and restored as “Wallingford”. In service on VALE.

Pullman Standard 14-4 Sleeper “Stuart Knott”, then sold private owner Tom McOwen of Cincinnati, OH. Ran with an Amtrak or PPCX number of 800284. The car is in good condition, 95% original, and benefits from regular preventative maintenance as reported by Mr. McOwen on 2/18/2018. The car is currently in primer awaiting reapplication of its KCS livery at an undisclosed location. It is hoped that the car will be back in Cincinnati later this year and back in service.

Pullman Standard 14-4 Sleeper #44 “Colonel Fordyce”, then AMTRAK #2520. Sold to Tom Johnson at Amtrak auction. Sold again to unknown buyer. Reportedly located in the Kansas City area by Tom Johnson on January 20, 2018.

_________________
Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


Last edited by Mount Royal on Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 59 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
Can someone please edit the title to “surviving” equipment? My fingers were faster than my eye. Thanks.

Fixed.

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Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


Last edited by Mount Royal on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 32
[I am also looking for dates on the fleet rebuild, renumbering, renaming, etc, etc.

Pullman Standard Business Car “Kay-see”, now “Harry S. Truman”- What date was the name changed, and was car named "KANSAS CITY for a period, before?




ACF 36 Seat Dining Car #56 “Mountain Lodge”, originally- #58. Current KCS business train consist member. - I have it numbered # 56 "JACKSON"





Pullman Standard Bag/Express Car #19 “Heavener”, originally- Car #17, then #17 in MOW service. Current KCS business train consist member. Tool car. - I have this as BAGGAGE-EXPRESS # 19, built in 1964. 2004c rebuilt at Mid-American Railcar, named # 19 "PORT ARTHUR", assigned "Southern Belle" business fleet. 2006c renamed # 19 "HEAVENER"

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:25 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 491
I just ran across a photo of a KCS Obs car "Good Cheer", does it still exist?

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 32
I just found this link

http://www.kcshs.org/schedule/subs/imag ... /locos.htm

A spreadsheet date 2012 has a lisitng of some of the equipment in question

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 219
HudsonL wrote:
I just ran across a photo of a KCS Obs car "Good Cheer", does it still exist?

-Hudson


It was owned by the Gulf Coast Chapter, NRHS in Houston; but it isn't listed on their inventory any more. Not sure why, they've had issues in recent years, but the car was in good shape last I saw.

CD


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:46 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
ParlourcarII wrote:
[I am also looking for dates on the fleet rebuild, renumbering, renaming, etc, etc.

Pullman Standard Business Car “Kay-see”, now “Harry S. Truman”- What date was the name changed, and was car named "KANSAS CITY for a period, before?




ACF 36 Seat Dining Car #56 “Mountain Lodge”, originally- #58. Current KCS business train consist member. - I have it numbered # 56 "JACKSON"




Pullman Standard Bag/Express Car #19 “Heavener”, originally- Car #17, then #17 in MOW service. Current KCS business train consist member. Tool car. - I have this as BAGGAGE-EXPRESS # 19, built in 1964. 2004c rebuilt at Mid-American Railcar, named # 19 "PORT ARTHUR", assigned "Southern Belle" business fleet. 2006c renamed # 19 "HEAVENER"



Kay-see was built in 1928, rebuilt at Pittsburg in 1950, again in 1960, and 1989. I don’t recall it being renamed. However, “Kay-See”, I’m sure was just a play on KC or Kansas City. It was renamed in honor of Harry S. Truman as it was reportedly a favorite of his. Not sure when exactly the name change happened. Probably sometime between 1998 and 2008 or when it was placed at HQ. My grandfather and father both spoke of this car and how much they hated seeing it come to town as well as the TOLMAK. They always referred to it as Kay-See. Dad retired in 2013. He was not a big fan of the business train either. He didn’t like having to move it around when it came to Port Arthur. It’s funny that the senior man on the line was made nervous by the Belle.

Mountain Lodge was indeed renumbered Car #56 and renamed “Jackson” in business train service. I updated my list.

Car #19 “Heavener” was originally #17 according to KCS. The original car #19 was built by ACF in 1912. The second car #19 was a 1964 Pullman Standard. “Heavener”/ #17 is the third car to wear the number 19.

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Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


Last edited by Mount Royal on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
CREEPING DEATH wrote:
HudsonL wrote:
I just ran across a photo of a KCS Obs car "Good Cheer", does it still exist?

-Hudson


It was owned by the Gulf Coast Chapter, NRHS in Houston; but it isn't listed on their inventory any more. Not sure why, they've had issues in recent years, but the car was in good shape last I saw.

CD


Whoops! I forgot about “Good Cheer”. I’ve added her to the list. I think I saw some photos of her on a car being moved. Not sure where or any details, hence the topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:33 pm
Posts: 16
Good Cheer is now at Austin Steam Train Assoc. awaiting restoration.


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 142
Mount Royal wrote:
ParlourcarII wrote:
[I am also looking for dates on the fleet rebuild, renumbering, renaming, etc, etc.

Pullman Standard Business Car “Kay-see”, now “Harry S. Truman”- What date was the name changed, and was car named "KANSAS CITY for a period, before?


Kay-see was built in 1928, rebuilt at Pittsburg in 1950, again in 1960, and 1989. I don’t recall it being renamed. However, “Kay-See”, I’m sure was just a play on KC or Kansas City. It was renamed in honor of Harry S. Truman as it was reportedly a favorite of his. Not sure when exactly the name change happened. Probably sometime between 1998 and 2008 or when it was placed at HQ. My grandfather and father both spoke of this car and how much they hated seeing it come to town as well as the TOLMAK. They always referred to it as Kay-See. Dad retired in 2013. He was not a big fan of the business train either. He didn’t like having to move it around when it came to Port Arthur. It’s funny that the senior man on the line was made nervous by the Belle.


Kay See was renamed to Harry S. Truman upon retirement when she was rebuilt for display next to KCS headquarters


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
LeoA wrote:
Mount Royal wrote:
ParlourcarII wrote:
[I am also looking for dates on the fleet rebuild, renumbering, renaming, etc, etc.

Pullman Standard Business Car “Kay-see”, now “Harry S. Truman”- What date was the name changed, and was car named "KANSAS CITY for a period, before?


Kay-see was built in 1928, rebuilt at Pittsburg in 1950, again in 1960, and 1989. I don’t recall it being renamed. However, “Kay-See”, I’m sure was just a play on KC or Kansas City. It was renamed in honor of Harry S. Truman as it was reportedly a favorite of his. Not sure when exactly the name change happened. Probably sometime between 1998 and 2008 or when it was placed at HQ. My grandfather and father both spoke of this car and how much they hated seeing it come to town as well as the TOLMAK. They always referred to it as Kay-See. Dad retired in 2013. He was not a big fan of the business train either. He didn’t like having to move it around when it came to Port Arthur. It’s funny that the senior man on the line was made nervous by the Belle.


Kay See was renamed to Harry S. Truman upon retirement when she was rebuilt for display next to KCS headquarters


Any idea what year that was?

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Danbury, CT
ParlourcarII wrote:
I just found this link

http://www.kcshs.org/schedule/subs/imag ... /locos.htm

A spreadsheet date 2012 has a lisitng of some of the equipment in question



Thanks! This is a list of the business train equipment. It also mentions Kay-See’s history. She was indeed renamed “Kansas City” in 1995 and held the name until retirement.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 142
Trains Magazine had an article on this car back in April 2003, written by the vice president of operations on the Katy in the early 1960's, Thomas S. Carter.

Mrs. Truman arranged a trip on the KCS since she didn't want her husband flying on a USAF transport to attend a funeral for a member of Congress at the request of the Kennedy administration (The funeral was in Bonham Texas, which is where the Katy connection comes in). The Katy VP served as host while they were aboard. This and his nearby hometown of Independence is the connection to Truman that the car was renamed in honor of.

No mention was made of a rename to Kansas City in that particular article, but a search of Trains Magazine also reports it as happening 1995 at the same time that the F's were acquired and rebuilt (Along with several other renamings like the Tolmak becoming the New Orleans). Nor was a specific date for the renaming in honor of President Truman cited, with the 2003 article just saying that it happened "a couple of years ago".

The new headquarters building with the former Kay See was dedicated on September 24th 2002.


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:22 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 219
wosborn wrote:
Good Cheer is now at Austin Steam Train Assoc. awaiting restoration.


I see on ASTA's site they also have the former MKT New Braunfels as well, it appears to be in service - both cars were previously at the Houston RR Museum (Gulf Coast Chapter NRHS) which is in the process of building a new facility in Tomball, TX.
Any idea if they were sold, leased, or some other arrangement?

CD


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