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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:05 am
Posts: 37
Location: Glen Ellyn, IL
Robert Opal wrote:
C&NW acquired several relatively modern (at the time) passenger coaches from another railroad post Amtrak which it gutted and converted into sleepers for its business train. I'm not sure about this, but I seem to recall that the cars were ex-KCS cars. If so, they may now be in the UP business car fleet.



I should have looked at the UPRR website before I wrote my earlier note.

UP's business fleet does, indeed, contain two former KCS coaches built in 1965 - nos. 270 and 272. Following Amtrak, both cars were sold to the New Jersey Department of Transportation for commuter service. In 1986, they were sold to C&NW, which converted them into luxury sleepers (much nicer, I should add, than anything on Amtrak). The 270 became the "Lake Forest" and the 272 became the "Lake Bluff". Both are currently in UPRR's business car fleet, retaining their C&NW names.


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
That’s great to hear! Thanks very much. I hadn’t gotten around to checking into the cars that went to the CNJ. I hope I have luck with the others.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entries for cars #270 and #272 updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 360
As previously noted, the 14-4 sleeper Harvey Couch went to mexico and became SCD 708 Rio Balsas.

I can't seem to remember what happened to the 14-4 Stuart Knott. I could have sworn it went to mexico but I don't see it on my mexico roster.


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
Topfuel wrote:
As previously noted, the 14-4 sleeper Harvey Couch went to mexico and became SCD 708 Rio Balsas.

I can't seem to remember what happened to the 14-4 Stuart Knott. I could have sworn it went to mexico but I don't see it on my mexico roster.


Thank you, sir!

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Randy Patterson
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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entries for 14-4 sleeper “Harvey Couch”, and chair cars #271, 273, 274, 276, 277, 278, and 279 updated. Note: the latest information on the chair cars is about thirty years old. They’ll still need some help.

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Randy Patterson
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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 360
Former KCS coaches 270, 273, 274, 276, 277, 278, and 279 - built by PS in 1965 - are all on the roster of NCDOT for their Piedmont Amtrak service.

See a roster here:

http://on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster ... html#NCDOT


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
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Location: Danbury, CT
List entries for all PS 72 seat chair cars updated.

List entry created for heavyweight baggage car #80.

List entry for Bag/RPO/Dorm Car #69 removed. Car was sold to Lance Erickson, then sold again into use as storage. Reported scrapped.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
Topfuel wrote:
Former KCS coaches 270, 273, 274, 276, 277, 278, and 279 - built by PS in 1965 - are all on the roster of NCDOT for their Piedmont Amtrak service.

See a roster here:

http://on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster ... html#NCDOT



Thanks again. Great find! It’s surprising to me to see this many cars still in service.

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Randy Patterson
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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entry updated for Pullman Standard Bag/Express #23, originally- #74, then AMTRAK #1087, then #10092. Exhibit Car “Southern Belle”, then Adrian & Blissfield Ry as power car. Mark Dubronski of A&B reported this car was a victim of arson on May 17, 2014. He recalled the date of the incident off the top of his head and it is clear they’re still ticked off about it. Thanks goes out to the folks at A&B for taking time out of their busy day to speak with me regarding this car. I’m sure they have better things to talk about and I feel for them.

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Randy Patterson
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Last edited by Mount Royal on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entry updated for BUDD Grill Observation KCS #43, formerly 46, originally NYC 50. Thanks goes to Harrison Van Waes, the Director of Operations for the B&O Museum.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:21 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 40
Not all the rebuilds - but the ones P-S did (or were new - KCS had a number of lete cars built) R after date and before Lot and Plan is the Lot prefix - repair/remodel/rebuild


"Business Car - Repair (1) - Plan 7208 ""KAY SEE""
Built under Lot 6204 in 1928 - Rider to Plan 7208
Air conditioned under Lot A-6653 in 1941" 1949-50 R 6891 7208-R
"Mail-Baggage - (Remanufactured) - (Orig. Lot 6613)
Old No. 64 & 65 - New No. 68 & 69
Change Aluminum underframe to Steel
Est. P-2654 - Photos - In File
(Color: All KCS Cars - Body solid black with horizontal
red & yellow stripe under window...full length of car)" 1962 R 7015 7431
"Dining Car - (ACF Built - (Remanufactured)
Old #57 - Name: ""OLD PLANTATION"" - New #59
Reference Lot 6615 - Reference photos with this Lot)" 1962 R 7016 7666492
"Coach - (ACF Built - (Remanufactured) ACF Plan #
Old #241 SHREVEPORT New # 252 7666491
Old #239 KANSAS CITY New # 251 7666490
Old # 243 BATON ROUGE New # 253 7666491
Old # 244 NEW ORLEANS New # 254 7666491 " 1962 R 7017 "7666490
7666491"
"Coach - (Remanufactured)
5 PULL-Built - New Plan 80-B-85-J Plan 7032
Old # 234 - PITTSBURG New # 255
Old # 235 - JOPLIN New # 256
Old # 236 - NEOSHO New # 257
Old # 237 - BEAUMONT New # 258
Old # 238 - PORT AUTHER New # 259
1 ACF-Built -
Old #242 - ALEXANDRIA New # 260 ACF 766491" 1962 R 7018 Multiple
"Mail-Baggage (Remanufactured)
1 Mail-Baggage - ex-CGW No.6 - Pullman-Built - Cancelled
1 Mail-Baggage-Dormitory - No. 67 ACF Built New # 34
4 Mail-Baggage Pullman-Built
Old # 60-63 New 30, 31, 32 & 33
All have 6-Wheel trucks, No. 67, New #34 have clasp brakes
No.s 60 to 63 have Disc Brakes." 1963 R 7019 Multiple
"Dining Car (Remanufactured) No. 52 - Pullman-Built
Cancelled - see R-7020 Feb 1966
was No. 52 - Old Lot 6505 - plan 7384
Car No. 58 (ex 67) - MOUNTAIN LODGE - ACF built same as
Lot 7016 - Est.P2756 - Old ACF Lot 3051" 1962 R 7020 7666492
"Tavern-Observation-Lounge (Remanufactured -
Budd-Built - for NYC originally - 4-wheel trucks, disc brakes
Old Nos. 44-47 New -Nos. 43, 41, 40, 42" 1962 R 7021 53514
"Coach -Remanufactured - ACF-Built (Lot 04-4576)
Old Numbers 2447 to 250 - New Numbers - 263 to 266" 1964 R 7028 76-3731
"Baggage Car - Remanufactured
Old Numbers 70 to 79 - New Numbers 20 to 27" 1964 R 7030 53278
"Baggage Car - Remanufactured - No. 33
Specification & Drawing List in File" 1964 R 7036 53278
"Lounge Car - Remanufactured (Budd built for NYC)
Old Nos. 61 & 66 - New Numbers 44 & 45
Black with red & yellow stripe - exterior - Cancelled Oct. 1967" 1964 R 7036 53278
Remanufactured Coach - Old Nos. 239 to 233 1959 RM 7000 Multiple
"Coach - 76- Passenger DeLuxe - No. 230 to 233
Worcester. Spec. 843 - Worcester. Est. 3390 - Worcester. CO-B-13315
Specification & Drawing List in File
4-Wheel Trucks & Arch Roof Chair 76
230 HEAVENER 231 DE QUEEN
232 NOEL 233 " 1936-37 W 6504 50780
Baggage Car - No. 1, 2 1901 2733 1677
"Private Car - ""KAY SEE"" Exhibit Plan 1125
(K.C.S. for C. E. Johnston)" 1928 6204 7208
"Mail-Baggage-Express - No 60 to 63
Ry Drawing C-6-12412" 1931 6406 7331
Mail-Baggage - (with Crew Compartment ) Nos. 64-65-66 1939 6613 7431
"Coach - Divided (Jim Crow) - Seating 56 & 18
234 PITTSBURG 235 JOPLIN
236 TEXARKANA (NEOSHO)
237 ALEXANDRIA (BEAUMONT
238 BATON ROUGE (PORT ARTHUR)
See remanufacturing Lot 7018" 1939 6614 7432
"Parlor Diner-Observation, Nos. 54-55-56 & Names
54 KANSAS CITY 55 SHREVEPORT 56 NEW ORLEANS
(See remanufacturing Lot 7016 & 7017)" 1939 6615 7433
"Sleeper - (4-Bedroom-(BL)-BC, 14-Roomette ""N"")
JOB EDSON WILLIAM BUCHANAN
LEONOR LOREE COLONEL FORDYCE
WILLIAM EDENBORN HARVEY COUCH
AURTHUR STILLWELL STUART KNOTT " 1946-1948 6795 4143
"Baggage Car
74' non- Passenger without Messenger Facilities -) Built P.C.W.
No. 70 to 79 Engineering only at Worcester Worcester.. Est. 5227" 1959 7003 " W-53278
W-53274"
Built New (like Lot 7003) - No. 14 to 19 1964 7028 53278
"Coach - Lightweight (Main Line) - No. 270 to 279
(Oxford Grey with Red & Yellow Stripe, Silver Roof)" 1964 7033 53614


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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entry for PS Parlor Lounge #501 added.

I feel a bit silly not catching this one sooner, as it is almost right under my nose. This particular car is in service with the Valley Railroad here in Connecticut.

List has 55 cars on it now. I would consider that a pretty decent number of survivors. Of those, 19 need further information to make current. Thanks to all who have helped so far. We’re getting there.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entry for PS 14-4 Sleeper “Harvey Couch” removed. KCS sold the car to Lance Erickson, who sold it to Jim Herron. Mr. Herron then sold it to Anbel Corp which then sold it to SCD in Mexico. The car was reportedly scrapped in Mexico in 2000.

List entry for PS Sleeper “William Buchanan” removed. KCS sold the car to Rail Tours International as “Red Cloud”. It was sold and renamed “Spanish Eyes”. It was located at Benjamín Hill, Sonora, then was later reported for sale in Mexicali, Baja California. Car reported as scrapped in Mexico in 2008.

List entry updated for BUDD grill/observation #43.

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 Post subject: Re: Kansas City Southern- Surving Passenger Equipment
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 321
Location: Danbury, CT
List entries updated for Pullman 14-4 sleepers "Colonel Fordyce" and "Arthur Stilwell". AMTRAK numbers were corrected, but information is still 30+ years old. The AMTK numbers for both of these cars have been re-issued to a pair of former UP BUDD 10-6's.

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