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 Post subject: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
I am updating the equipment roster for the Valley Railroad Co. (dba: Essex Steam Train & Riverboat) and am lacking some bits of information:
New York Central horse car #8770, need date built
Pennsylvania baggage car #9284 (later Penn-Central #7564), need date built and builder
Central Vermont wooden caboose #4010, need date built and builder
Central Vermont 2 bay hopper car #20088, need date built and builder
Central Vermont wooden flat cars #s 5146 and 5151, need date built and builder
Erie boxcar #70838, need builder
Lackawanna boxcar#84257, need builder
Maine Central boxcars #s 6364, 9435, 9496, 9819, 9861, need builder(s)
The 2016 roster can be found at essexsteamtrain.com/roster
Thank you in advance for any and all assistance!
J.David (jdconrad@essexsteamtrain dot com)


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:56 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 829
Here is what I have on their three American cranes:

1110 25 ton 1922 Northern States Power Co. #8
American Creosote #H50 (converted to diesel)
Valley RR Co. Essex, CT

2109 40 ton 08-46 DE Union RR #14 Pittsburgh, PA
Electric Boat #10 New London, CT
Valley RR #W-10 Essex, CT

2202 40 ton 01-47 D Oliver Iron Mining Co.
US Steel Corp. Virginia, MN
Electric Boat #2 New London, CT
Valley RR #W-2 Essex, CT


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 443
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi David
I am surprised that the Valley railroad, does not have the information you are looking for in their records?
I did find some information on a few things,
1. The New York Central Baggage car, #8770 built by Pullman in 1920.
2. The Pennsy Baggage car, # Pennsy number # 9284, PennCentral # 7564 Builders ACF, J.G Brill, Pressed Steel, & St.Louis Car company. The B60b's were built in a five year period, from 1925 to 1930.
I know that this might not be much help, but I will keep on looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5544
Here's a photo of recently painted Central Vermont hopper car # 20088:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3125809

I wonder if any photos exist of the car in its original Central Vermont lettering? Or if any pix exist of sister cars in the series? That might at least, give a built date for the car.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 728
I found this list of EL freight cars, it is an xrs file you need Excel to open (EL is the far left column, use the arrow):
http://www.20thcenturyhobbies.com/train ... roster.xls

The Erie and Lackawanna sections aren't complete, but IF the numbers carried over to EL, Erie boxcar #70838 was built in 1941 by the Magor Car Corporation.

Edit: For Lackawanna #84257, if you look at the "last DL&W #" column in the DL&W section it looks like #84000 series were 1955, American Car and Foundry.


Last edited by PMC on Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:53 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 443
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi David
I have done some more research and found a few more things for you.

1. Central Vermont caboose # 4010 built 1910 at the CV railroad shops, also CV caboose # 4011, is at the Conway Scenic RR, at North Conway, NH.
2. Central Vermont Flatcar # 5151, built 1910 built by?
3. Maine Central Boxcars # 6364 #9435 # 9496 all built by Pullman Standard.
I could not find any information on Maine Central Boxcars # 9819 or #9861.


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 277
Location: H2O-town, CT
I'm curious about something, with the NYC is "horse car" and "baggage car" one in the same or different or one was converted from the other? One some rosters they call it a baggage and on others horse, seems to be confusing at times, especially if you're mentally thinking one actually carried horses!


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:49 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Northern Illinois
MEC_557 wrote:
I'm curious about something, with the NYC is "horse car" and "baggage car" one in the same or different or one was converted from the other? One some rosters they call it a baggage and on others horse, seems to be confusing at times, especially if you're mentally thinking one actually carried horses!

Some baggage cars were outfitted with collapsible stables to transport horses, presumably along with their owners. I know IRM has one from the CNW.


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
First: PMC and Pat Fahey, thank you very much for the information you provided! At one time, there were quite a few Valley folks who kept track of the histories of equipment, etc. but they mostly remained with the Railroad Museum of New England when it departed Essex. Since then I have tried to keep up with the historical end of things.
Second: MEC_557, NYC #8770 was built as a Horse Car, with windows at eye level (for the horses) and a full width double door at one end of the car for loading & unloading. It was converted to a baggage car at some time by blanking off the windows. Some cars had provisions for grooms or stable hands to travel along and care for the horses. Remember, these were high end horses, not common draft horses. Similar cars were built for the transport of theatrical scenery. Valley bought the car with plans to convert it to a kitchen car for the Essex Clipper Dinner Train. We began the work but never finished. It has become the signal shop and storage for the cleaning crew.
Be well,
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 230
J. David, I have solved your mystery regarding VRR's ex-PRR baggage-express car No. 9284.

The car was originally built as PRR No. 8792 in June of 1928 by the American Car & Foundry Co., of Berwick, Pa., an order lot of 75 total class B60b baggage express cars (Nos. 8778-8852) built for the PRR. Each car cost $13,122.25 new and had a cap'y of 4,000 lbs. Each car weighed 101,300 lbs., and measured 62'5-3/4" length over sills. The cars were delivered to the PRR in batches as they were completed between June through August of 1928.

The cars were fitted for messenger service in 1946 and renumbered, in this case, as No. 9284 at that time.

Source: PRR BV-588 (1928-30) vol. 22, book 1 of 2, sheets 1-3 of 126, from MG-286 Penn Central Railroad Collection series {286m.291}, courtesy PA State Archives (PHMC), Harrisburg, Pa.

Cordially,
K.R. Bell
Railroad Collections Archivist
PA State Archives (PHMC)


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5636
Location: southeastern USA
So, a car weighting 50.5 tons can only carry 2 tons of freight? Seems odd to me. Sure about those numbers?

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 500
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Thanks Kurt!
Unfortunately, I think that the Messenger's room was removed when converted to a power car at VRR. The room was tiny but with a couple of little lockers built into the end walls.
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1664
Location: Southern California
The description of the messenger facilities seemed inaccurate or insufficient. It should be listing drinking water, lavatory and toilet for the messenger. etc.
So I grabbed an issue of The Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment -- the one I pulled down from the shelf was issue of March 1964. the listing for PRR lists the car as being AAR car class BEM for Baggage Express Messenger. Elsewhere in the publication is a listing of the class definitions. Below you will find scans of both of these:
Attachment:
File comment: From page 78-86 of March 1964 O.R of Passenger Train Equipment
PRR Official Register list.jpg
PRR Official Register list.jpg [ 85.69 KiB | Viewed 952 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: AAR classification of...passenger train cars
From page 114 of March 1964 O.R of Passenger Train Equipment

Class_BEM.jpg
Class_BEM.jpg [ 77.11 KiB | Viewed 952 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:40 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 230
J. David, Here's more history on your New York Central RR Horse Car No. 8770.

According to NYC records, No. 8770 was built in the NYC's own shops but does not indicate where, in February 1959. It is 70' length, part of a lot of 28 built by the company in 1958-59, but some cars were also built earlier. The car was equipped with 24 stalls for horses.

Source: BV-588 "Record of Property Changes" [... reported to the ICC] - New York Central RR, Vol. 89, Penn Central Railroad Collection, Pennsylvania State Archives (PHMC), Harrisburg, Pa.

-K.R. Bell
Railroad Collections Archivist
PA State Archives (PHMC)


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 Post subject: Re: Valley Railroad roster: help needed!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Bowie, MD
I take it "pigeon holes" means a series of cubbies, like a shoe rack? Perhaps above the desk to hold papers and whatnot?

Thanks in advance,

Bob


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