Railway Preservation News

Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969
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Author:  andyhardy [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

Hello everyone.

My names Andy Hardy and i'm a steam loco driver in the UK. I am currently doing a little research and am trying to trace the route of Flying Scotsman across the US on its first part of its tour in 1969.

Can anyone tell me the route taken and the Cities and States visited.

Ideally i'm trying to complete the facts to this statement:

"Over 39 days Flying Scotsman visited xx States and xx Cities - from Boston to Dallas and from x to x"

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Andy Hardy
(UK steam loco driver whose slowly being converted to American engines after a day on the footplate of TVRM 630)

Author:  70000 [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

This was a thread on here a while back..

Author:  John T [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

I saw the Scotsman in Baltimore in October 1969. Here is part of the Schedule:

Left Boston, MA October 12, 1969
Hartford, CT October 13
Baltimore, MD October 24
Dallas, TX November 4
Houston, TX November 10
Slaton, TX for the winter
Slaton>Dallas>Fort Worth>Kansas City>St. Louis
Arrived Green Bay, WI July 19, 1970
Arrived in San Francisco, CA September 27, 1971

Author:  John T [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

Little bit more:

However, the train ran from Boston to New York City, Washington, D.C. and Dallas in 1969; from Texas to Wisconsin and finishing in Montreal in 1970; and from Toronto to San Francisco in 1971 — a total of 15,400 miles (24,800 km).[19

Author:  Peter Becker [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

I was living in Kansas City at the time. It got in to KC Union Station on 6/23/1970 and stayed for a week. On 6/25 I had a tour through the cab. 0n 6/30 it traveled to St Louis, I believe on the N&W (Wabash).

Author:  dinwitty [ Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

I saw it in 69, shot 8mm film of it running on the Nickel Plate thru Ft Wayne. Trains or Railroad/Railfan ran an article fairly recently on the trips. It was holed up in San Fransisco for a while due to financial problems but finally got back to England.

Author:  WVNorthern [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

I'm almost positive I read an article in TRAINS magazine within the last year or two written by someone who was on the Flying Scotsman crew detailing their trip across the country. I pass my magazines on to a railfan friend so I no longer have access to the article, Unless I was dreaming, I believe there was a map with the piece in question.

UPDATE: After a little googling, I found the TRAINS web site listing back issues for sale.

As I remember, it was a pretty thorough coverage of the Flying Scotsman's American travels. The October 2016 issue is the one you want.

flying_scotsman_issue.jpg [ 32.22 KiB | Viewed 2062 times ]

Author:  Catalpa [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

The train crossed the Nickel Plate (by then Norfolk & Western or Norfolk-Southern - not sure of the merger date) west of Cleveland. I have slides and super-8mm movies of the train crossing the B&O/NKP diamond at Lorain, Ohio. I'll see if I can find them in one of the yellow boxes, and post a few.

B'more, MD

Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

For the record, this is as complete as I was able to compile the itinerary for Trains Magazine; I did the original edit and fact-check of the late Hinchcliffe's long-ago-submitted manuscript and compiled the following for Wrinn after his request. I (foolishly) thought it would take me a day or two; it took closer to a month of slogging research and appeals, and that with first-hand material about me and tons of trivial (and at times wildly inaccurate) personal anecdotes contributed.

Flying Scotsman in North America – Itinerary

Loaded in Britain Sept 18
Arrived Boston Harbor aboard Saxonia Sept. 28, 1969.
Shakedown run over Penn Central ex-New Haven Boston-New London Oct 3, then on display
Official opening Oct 8th Boston South Station Oct 8-11
Via Penn Central (ex-NH) South Station to Hartford, CT Oct 12-13
PC ex-NH via Hell Gate Bridge (GG1 pilot) to
NYC Penn Station Oct 14-18, dep. 19th AM
Philadelphia Oct 19-23 via PC ex-PRR (towed Penn Station-Harrison NJ for fire-up)
Baltimore Oct 23-24 PC ex-PRR pulled by GG1 4845 to
Washington DC Oct. 25-27 via PC ex-PRR
Oct 28: DC-Salisbury, NC via SR with servicing at Monroe and Lynchburg
Oct 29: Salisbury-Gainesville, GA via SR
Oct 30: Gainesville-Atlanta via SR
Atlanta, GA Oct 30th-Nov. 1
Atlanta-Birmingham Nov 2 via SR with meet with SR steam excursions with S&A 750 and SR 4501 at Anniston, Alabama—headlight removed for this lap
Birmingham, AL Nov 2
Nov. 3: Birmingham-Meridian, Miss. via SR, Meridian-Vicksburg, Miss. via IC
Nov. 4: Vickburg-Shreveport IC, Shreveport-Tyler OR Mineola via MoPac
Nov. 5: Tyler/Mineola -Dallas via MP
Dallas Nov. 6-7 display (reports indicate Nov. 4th actual arrival)
Fort Worth T&P depot Nov. 9
Nov 9-10: Dallas/FW-Bryan-Houston via MoPac
Houston, TX display Nov. 10-15
Nov 17 pass thru Brenham, Tx on ATSF
In storage Slaton, TX (ATSF) roundhouse Nov. 1969
Unconfirmed reports indicate loco also traversed Burlington/RI trackage during 1969

Proposed/announced 1970 Itinerary:

4-17 Slaton, TX
4-18 Lubbock
4-19 Clovis, NM
4-20 Belen
4-21 Winslow
4-22 Williams Jct. And Seligman
4-23 Barstow, CA
4-24 to 5-3 San Diego
5-4 to 5-10 Los Angeles
5-11 Bakersfield
5-12 to 5-17 San Francisco
5-18 Redding
5-19 Klamath Falls
5-20 Eugene
5-21 to 24 Portland, Ore.
5-25/26 Tacoma
5-27 to 31 Seattle
6-1 to 14 Vancouver
6-15 Kamloops
6-16 Jasper
6-17 to 21 Edmonton
6-24 Medicine Hat
6-25 Moose Jaw
6-26/28 Regina
6-29 Brandon
6-30 to 7-8 Winnipeg
7-9 Moorhead
7-10 to 12 Minneapolis
7-21 to 8-19 Green Bay NRM
8-20 Milwaukee
8-21 to 30 Chicago
8-31 South Bend
9-1 to 6 Detroit
9-7/8 London, Ont.
9-9 to 16 Toronto
9-18 to 20 Niagara Falls
9-21 to 27 Buffalo
9-28 to 10-4 Pittsburgh
10-5 to 11 Cleveland
10-12/13 Toledo
10-14 South Bend
10-15 Chicago
10-16 Milwaukee
10-17 Green Bay NRM for winter

ACTUAL 1970:

Late June Slaton-Mileta-Brownwood-Lometa-Temple, TX assume Katy thru Fort Worth and Denison (service/sales stop, June 20th) and MacAlester, OK to Muskogee
Derailed Waco, TX June 18th, damage to journal repaired at Cleburne, TX ATSF loco shop
Katy via Staley, Ok. and Parsons, Kansas (June 20?)
Kansas City display until 6-29
6-30-70 Kansas City-Mexico-Wright City (ICG to Mexico, N&W [ex-Wabash?] to St. Louis) to St. Louis (display at Union Station)

Depart Tuesday July 7 via Decatur, IL, via N&W ex-Wabash to Chicago
Arrival Chicago July 7; One-week stay in Chicago Dearborn Station, then north via C&NW July 19th, to Green Bay, WI arriving close to July 20th

At NRM Green Bay July 20th-August 15th
Aug. 17-18 C&NW freight line XX –Waxdale, WI-Chicago 40th St yard C&NW
To Detroit via EJ&E Dyer, Il.

Aug 20, 1970: Detroit-St. Clair Tunnel-Sarnia, Ont.
Aug 21: Hamilton, Burlington, Toronto
Aug. 22nd-Sept. 7: CN Exhibition, Toronto
Sept. 8: Toronto-Belleville-Ottawa, in display in Ottawa Sept. 9-17
Sept. 18: Ottawa-Montreal, on display near Vertu Station/Ballantyne 18th-27th
Sept. 28: Montreal-Brockville-Kingston
Sept 30: Kingston-Toronto-Hamilton
Oct 1: On display Hamilton, James Street
Oct. 2: Hamilton-Niagara Falls
Oct. 31: Niagara Falls-Toronto Spadina roundhouse for storage

Exhibition train offered for sale Nov 1970 Trains, address at Green Bay

Winter 1970-71: Spadina roundhouse, Toronto—train stored CN Bathurst Yard Toronto with Pullman Lydia and Devon Belle obs stored at Procor siding, Bronte (Toronto area)

1971 AUGUST Spadina-Buffalo (via CN Grimsby subdivision to Fort Erie); crossing over the International Bridge and into International Yard on the US side of the Niagara River; to PC ex-NYC Belt Line, then on to SK - which at that time was the west end of Bison Yard. Train transferred to the NKP main from Bison yard, joint EL/N&W at time.
West via NKP Lorain, Ohio 9-2-71 (George Payne movie/photo)
Thru Chicago region via unknown routing, probably EJ&E
West through Northwest on BN former Great Northern (bad lignite loaded in N.D.)
Sept 13th Whitefish, MT (24 hours behind)-Spokane via BN ex-GN
14th Spokane-Pasco, Washington over BN ex-NP
Sept 16 Pasco-Wishram, Wash. Via ex-SP&S Columbia River line, then south on Oregon Trunk to Bend, Oregon
Sept. 17th: Bend-Klamath Falls via BN
Sept. 27th: WP into Oakland, CA via Stockton, then Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco
Oct. 1971: San Francisco British Week

March 14th: first run of loco on Pier line, San Francisco Belt Line as excursion trip
still running 6-18-72
Removed from SF via WP (SF-Oakland via car ferry Las Plumas) to Sharpe army Depot, Lathrop, CA Aug. 13

Author:  HudsonL [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

I know it was in Minneapolis, MN, I just don't know when.

From the above it looks like 1971.

I didn't see it, but I talked to people who did.

It was displayed? Serviced? at the Minneapolis Junction Roundhouse (BN ex-GN) and at least some local railfans toured the train.


Author:  Peter Becker [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

Perhaps this is nit picking, but I have photos of the Flying Scotsman in Brunswick, MO which suggests it was on the N&W not the ICG most of the way from KC to St Louis on 6/30/70.

Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

Peter Becker wrote:
Perhaps this is nit picking, but I have photos of the Flying Scotsman in Brunswick, MO which suggests it was on the N&W not the ICG most of the way from KC to St Louis on 6/30/70.

I've learned the hard way--through many other examples of miscaptioned, misdated, and misidentified photos over the decades, including for this 4472 itinerary project--that unless you and/or the photographer are willing to testify that you/he took the photo in question, and proved to be a reliable note-taker and captioner, such "suggestions" aren't worth much.

Having said that: Looking at the maps, I have no idea why ICG would/should have been involved at all between St.Louis and KC, but Brunswick on former Wabash still fits whatever scenario I pieced together from whatever sources at the time.

Author:  Kevin Gilliam [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Route of Flying Scotsman across America in 1969

Some information gleaned from a crew member who wrote story for NRHS Bulletin.... Sounds like a fun trip.

9/2/71 Dpt Bison Yard, Buffalo 935AM via N&W to Fort Wayne. Journey box lid falls off pullman car somewhere outside of Buffalo. via Conneaut (short stop including display) and Bellevue (water). Injector problems shortly after leaving Conneaut. Stop at Cleveland to repair injectors. Dpt Bellevue about 7PM. Arr Fort Wayne 1205AM. Observation car has also lost a journal box cover. Crew works overnight on injector.

9/3/71 Dpt Fort Wayne 1145. N&W to Hobart, IN. EJ&E to East Joliet, IL. 1 mile backup move to site. Train almost derails en route. Set up for display by later afternoon.

9/7/71 Dpt East Joliet shortly after noon. Cross to BN at Eola, IL. Water stop at Savannah, IL. Tie up North LaCrosse.

9/8/71 Dpt North LaCrosse 8AM. Arr BN's Minneapolis station 1130. Afternoon exhibit.

9/9/71 Dpt Minneapolis 935AM. onto NP trackage via Anoka, Elk River and St. Cloud. Cross Father of Waters at Little Falls. Water stop at Staples for service and short display. Short stop to board TV crew at Detroit Lakes. Arr Fargo 5PM.

9/10/71 Dpt Fargo 635AM via GN. Water stop at New Rockford. Junction at Surrey. Four hour exhibition in Minot. Short stop at Stanley to get more coal. Dpt Stanley 830PM. Arrive Williston 1030PM. Many grassfires set because of poor coal.

9/11/71 Decision made to display in Williston as engine needs boiler wash. Stays in Williston total of 36hrs.

9/12/71 Dpt Williston. Moves via Bainville and Culbertson. Slow order at Oswego after earlier grass fire almost destroyed town. Many ties still smoldering. Arr Glasgow, MT 1145AM. 90 Minute layover. Stop at Dotson for coal. Ashpan gives trouble near Savoy. Several grass fires started. Emergency stop at Harlem after noticing smoke from Exhibit Car "C". Small blaze behind one of exhibits. Suspect cinder caused fire. Short stop at Zurich for meet.

9/13/71 Dpt Havre 915AM. Scheduled display stop at Gildford at 1030AM. Meet Pacific Zip at Buelow. Diesel helper added ahead of 4472 at Chester because of poor coal. Water stop at Shelby. Lose geep and add BN FA-1 4102 (4102 leads). Crew change at Cut Bank. 4 GP9s added to consist at Browning because BN uncertain how vacuum braking would respond at high altitude. Consist now 4 GP9s, FA-1, 4472, Train. Coal at Essex. Arrive Whitefish 930PM.

9/14/71. 4472 runs unassisted. Traverses Flathead Tunnel. Water stop in Troy. Arrive Spokane 210PM. Coal and water.

9/15/71 Dpt Spokane 804AM. Arrive Wishram 920AM for water stop. Misses orders at Maupin--has to back up to get them. Water stop. Meet freight at MP 86, South Junction. More problems causing low pressure. Limps to Bend. Arrives 655PM. Firebox, ashpan, smokebox cleaned. All remaining coal discarded. New coal taken on.

9/16/71. Dpt Bend 903AM. Onto SP rails at Chemult. Sets off defect detectors. After 3.5hrs, into Klamath Falls.

9/18/71 Dpt Klamath Falls on BN 7AM. WP SD-45 added in front of 4472 at Bieber. Arrive Oroville 550PM.

Train to be cleaned, then will make its way to Fisherman's Wharf. Plans to operate 4472 in tourist service on San Francisco Belt Railroad.

Hope this helps,

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