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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:35 pm
Posts: 3
What’s weird about all this is there’s been no mention the WMSR was covered by any insurance, particularly a Commercial Lines policy that would have included Commercial Crime Coverage forms with employee theft endorsement that would have paid for loss or damage to money, securities and other property resulting directly from theft committed by an employee, whether acting alone or in collusion with others, and whether identified or not.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:38 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1350
Location: Youngstown, OH
That is because their insurance does not cover employee theft.

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J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:36 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1087
And I suspect that even if their insurance did cover theft, it wouldn't cover consequential damages -- the full replacement cost including fabrication and finish machining/run-in of the parts made of the scrap metal. The actual brass 'metal' value, though high, only begins to cover the true cost of the crime.

I can't for the life of me figure out where all this continued business about valuing the T1 Trust effort as producing an operating tour-business engine comes from. Was it not completely clear even from the somewhat fumbling outset that this was to re-create the artifact, and establish it was improperly scrapped all those years ago? Any operations beyond demonstration are basically a fringe benefit, and regular operating schedules ... much as I hope and expect to see them ... are not part of any business model I have seen the Trust use to facilitate donations. So no, Mr. Mitchell, I wouldn't expect your BOD to prefer the Trust's efforts over 1309 for scarce preservation resources with rapid and relatively sure payback, especially with the differential between what 5550 needs for completion and, even with a full management and shop team shakeup, what 1309 will 'take'. It's apples and oranges.

Having said that: I think we need to figure out if there is a way to adapt the Jason and Nick show to fundraising for this project, perhaps making any crowdfunding contingent on specific management changes or refunding on an optional pro-rata basis when state money gets released (avoiding the terrible problems with cash flow that the 'previous' folks got into with Maryland state payment procedures).

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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:04 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 48
I have an idea which could get C&O #1309 finished and help keep the big girl steaming.

We all know how much CSX Corporate management is against any steam operations anywhere on its system. We also know what a great public relation tool railroad sponsorship of operational steam can be. Why not get CSX to sponsor the completion of 1309 in return for naming it the Official Locomotive of CSX Transportaion. CSX would be able to use the image of the locomotive in marketing and public relations. CSX could also have employee and stockholder trains on the WMSR. I know my idea sound far fetched, however if presented in the correct manner it could work.

Think about it, CSX gets the good press and marketing value a large and impressive steam locomotive delivers without operational headaches, the ongoing maintenance expenses or insurance issues of hosting the 1309. Done right, CSX could really look good and deflect some of the bad press the railroad has received over past few years. The dollar amount involved is not huge for a corporation the size of CSX.

Just the opinion of someone who has worked in adverting and the press since 1993.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 927
If CSX would do that....then maybe NS would be interested in a certain K4.....


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:03 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:39 pm
Posts: 5
[quote="steamloco76"]I have an idea which could get C&O #1309 finished and help keep the big girl steaming.

We all know how much CSX Corporate management is against any steam operations anywhere on its system. We also know what a great public relation tool railroad sponsorship of operational steam can be. Why not get CSX to sponsor the completion of 1309 in return for naming it the Official Locomotive of CSX Transportaion. CSX would be able to use the image of the locomotive in marketing and public relations. CSX could also have employee and stockholder trains on the WMSR. I know my idea sound far fetched, however if presented in the correct manner it could work.

CSX was supporting WMSR, although in a very quiet manner as to not attract the attention of the shareholders. CSX sponsored the 1309 move from Baltimore to Cumberland. CSX was leasing passenger cars from WMSR (both more cars and for longer periods) from WMSR to supplement the business car fleet for the Kentucky Derby trains and other functions. NS was supportive of the 1309 as well, as the project was featured in an employee newsletter with credit given to CSX for donating the move. All of that came to an abrupt halt in 2016 when "new management" took over. It was also new management who blamed the State of Maryland for late payments, not previous management as reported above.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
WPfan wrote:
All of that came to an abrupt halt in 2016 when "new management" took over. It was also new management who blamed the State of Maryland for late payments, not previous management as reported above.


You might wish to clarify whose management changed..........


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 776
WPfan wrote:

Why not get CSX to sponsor the completion of 1309 in return for naming it the Official Locomotive of CSX Transportaion. CSX would be able to use the image of the locomotive in marketing and public relations. CSX could also have employee and stockholder trains on the WMSR. .


A Class 1 railroad like CSX is far more likely to work with well-established organizations not currently embroiled in high profile issues regarding public money and theft of property. I can think of three that qualify which are already engaged...


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 799
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
WPfan wrote:
All of that came to an abrupt halt in 2016 when "new management" took over. It was also new management who blamed the State of Maryland for late payments, not previous management as reported above.


You might wish to clarify whose management changed..........


Management changes at WMSR.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 567
An April 19, 2018 article in the Cumberland Times-News:
Quote:
CUMBERLAND — The Western Maryland Scenic Railroad faces many challenges to keep operating, with the latest being possible difficulties with its new steam engine turning around at the Frostburg Depot.

Ideally, officials hope the Baldwin Steam Engine No. 1309 — currently being rebuilt — will travel from Cumberland to Frostburg and have onlookers enjoy watching the locomotive being rotated on the 100-foot turntable to allow it to lead the train cars back down the mountain to Cumberland's Western Maryland Railway Station. The WMSR currently uses diesel engines to pull the train while the popular steam engine is being restored.

However, the Baldwin 1309's immense size and construction — combined with the terrain and angles of the approach to the Frostburg Depot — may make it unable to access the turntable successfully.

Link to the full article: New steam engine may not turn at Frostburg Depot - Railroad officials say Engine No. 1309 will still be a huge plus


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 497
Location: Winters, TX
Sounds like they're putting the cart before the horse.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Back in NE Ohio
You mean they didn't do a clearance study of the engine before they got it!?


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 186
And it certainly seems commenters haven't checked the specs before showing a marked lack of research. The thrust of the article is that it may not be able to access the turntable....mld


Attachment:
File comment: Showing 98' 81/4" between pulling faces
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edit once for clarity


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:44 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1121
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Yeah, that's part of determining if a locomotive will be able to operate on a given railroad. I'm not wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: The strange saga of C&O 1309 restoration just got strang
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:13 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1087
And who cares what the dimension between pulling faces is? All you care about is the effective wheelbase, from engine truck to rear tender truck (which I could calculate from the data on the plan, but it's much shorter than 100' so I'll let someone else do it)

If there is by some chance a balance problem rotating the turntable, there are a number of solutions involving counterweights, including strategic water tanks on one arm of the table.

Even if it were too long, the solution PRR used to turn the leased ATSF 2-10-4s going up to Sandusky in 1956 could probably be implemented without too much pain. But that shouldn't be necessary.

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