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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 497
Location: Winters, TX
Ah, I was wondering how the city dealt themselves back in the mix. It was my understanding that the scrapper held clear title to the 503.

I applaud the miracle that Jason and Nick have accomplished, but at this stage of the game I'd sure like to see an attorney or someone with sound legal advice step in to help out in the matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:08 am
Posts: 60
Charlie wrote:
Ah, I was wondering how the city dealt themselves back in the mix. It was my understanding that the scrapper held clear title to the 503.

I applaud the miracle that Jason and Nick have accomplished, but at this stage of the game I'd sure like to see an attorney or someone with sound legal advice step in to help out in the matter.


The City's likely getting involved because it's gone from "gettng rid of this annoying scrap pile so we can redevelop" to "IT WAS WORTH NEARLY SIX FIGURES?"

Which is probably making someone regret giving them the engine just to cut up and get rid of.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 692
What part of "letting Jason and crew take care of this" is not understood? Come on ladies enough commentary already. Some of this is as bad as the national media or National Enquirer which is one in the same. Nothing being said here is going to help the guys on the ground. Some of what is being said could hurt the efforts. So for the good of the situation chill out and go have a cup of coffee or a beer. This is becoming similar to the #1309 thread some very immature content that as a community sure makes us look not so. We came together this far let see where this is going to go. Please let Jason and others do their chosen work and stop with the public commentary and chatter. If you must continue, do it back channel. Respectively yours, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 567
Here's an article published at 6:51 PM on Friday, February 23, 2018, in the Port Arthur News newspaper:
Almost ready to move — Railroad company working out how to transfer engine to Florida

Note the last two lines of the article:
Quote:
[Jason Sobcynzski] further thanked Jed Landrey with Inland Environments who was originally hired by the city of Port Arthur to scrap the locomotive.

Sobcynzski said Landrey didn’t have to give Next Generation additional time to move the locomotive but they did anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 560
The Port Arthur, TX city council agenda for the meeting to be held at 2-27-2018 at 5:30 PM includes the following item:

E. Discussion
(1) To Discuss And Possibly Take Action Regarding The Abatement, Remediation And Related Matters As It Pertains To KCS Engine No. 503 Located In Bryan Park (Requested By Councilmember Doucet)

Does not seem to be any further indication of what's up with this yet.

https://cityhall.portarthur.net:444/WebLink/0/doc/146613/Page1.aspx

(edit: switched AM to PM....)


Last edited by Pegasuspinto on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:41 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1745
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
The upcoming meeting of the PA City Council mentioned above has been called for 5:30 PM not AM as shown.

What it means I think is that the City has not yet conveyed title to the 503 to the scrapper and may ( repeat may) be having second thoughts caused by the GFM effort quickly raising over $ 60K ???

As previously mentioned, frequently, all we can do is hope that Jason & Co. do a good job representing the donors, get the City to finalize the transaction, get a clear purchase agreement/title and carry on with her movement and perhaps eventual restoration.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that this has a happy ending.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:01 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:05 pm
Posts: 26
John Risley wrote:
Come on ladies enough commentary already.


This is the 21st Century. We don't use "ladies" as an insult anymore.

Ladies of rail preservation are some of the best.

_________________
Nick Ozorak - Host of The Roundhouse

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 406
Came across the Port Arthur City Council Page:

https://www.portarthurtx.gov/250/City-Council

Of particular interest, about 2/3 down the page under "Quick Links", the first link is "City Council Live Feed and Archived Videos". So we can all tune in on Tuesday night at 5:30 PM CST to support Mr. Sobczynski and Mr. Hovey in their efforts to arrange a professional and proper preservation plan for 503.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1745
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Thanks for that heads up Scranton Yard. I'm a computer novice so please excuse my ignorance. If we link in using the info you provided does that allow us to make our voice heard with comments or are we limited to just listening??

Please advise. Thank you, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:49 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 406
Mr. Rowland - Well, I just tried to get on the website to check for you and I can not - maybe swamped by preservationists? Anyway, most likely this is a traditional feed with no interactivity - just like watching it on your local cable channel.

Since park engines and what to do with them is a recurring challenge in rail preservation, I plan on watching to try to learn more about how the political issues and the legal issues all impact the decision-making process. The most recent (a little over 27 months ago) similar/comparable transaction that I could think of is the purchase of the locomotive, Maine Central Number 470 by New England Steam Corp. from the City of Waterville, ME for $25,000. Like 503, 470 is a mainline steam locomotive that was owned by a government entity which had stored it outside with minimal maintenance for about a half century. Unlike this Port Arthur transaction, which appears to have been spurred by environmental issues, my recollection is that the sale of 470 by the City of Waterville was partly initiated due to a concern about personal injury liability and the deteriorating condition of the locomotive. Mr. Glueck and his colleagues at NESCO can no doubt provide a more accurate assessment.

This transaction is also different because transfer of title is not directly from the city to the preservationist but it is through a third party, Inland. Since the original transfer of title from the city to Inland was intended to facilitate the abatement of the asbestos and oil at the site and scrapping of 503, it may not have included a release of liability for hazmats - asbestos, oil, and lead. If that is the case, it will be interesting to see how that is handled in the transfer of title to Mr. Sobczynski.

As you know from trying to finance some of your recent initiatives and your experience around operational restorations, the real work will start when this has all concluded. With transportation and full operational restoration costs totaling around $1.5M, the original purchase price in the range of $25K to $35K is only around 2% of the total cost of this worthy endeavor to transform this neglected and weather-beaten artifact into a proud ambassador of our industrial heritage.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4002
Location: Maine
The 503 legacy mirrors our experience in several ways. A couple of things came into play with 470. The locomotive was in poor exterior condition due to vandalism and weather. Some small amounts of asbestos still required removal. The city could not get insurance because the locomotive was a safety liability. Six applicants came forward with plans. One was NESCO, one was Age of Steam Roundhouse, one was not a serious entity, and three were scrappers working under alias names. The first idea from the city was for us to rebuild it and run it for twenty years, then put it back on park display. That was a dead issue from the beginning. We requested a sale for $1. The city priced it at $25,000. We could see potential in the locomotive that others could not. The city would not allow it to go to Ohio. Certain destruction faced the 470 if we didn't step up, and we did - but only through the magnificent support of two foundations and the railfan community. Our crowd funding raised very little in three attempts, so the 503 experience was entirely amazing.

503 does not look to be in as poor condition as 470 was, and we were granted enough time to move her, although it cost about $85,000 for cranes and trucks to accomplish that part of the project.

FWIW, 470's shop building is almost complete, and we are concentrating on fund raising to get the tender tank rebuilt in the coming year. If those who donated to 503 care to extend their out of pocket generosity, we'd welcome the financial support for our tender fund. Clubs, individuals, and organizations, could move the process along nicely! I've found RYPN readers and participants to be an asset in every part of the 470 restoration.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 526
Location: Wall, NJ
Richard, good of you to point out your own experience with gofundme. I have been studying the 503 gofundme campaign myself for some pointers.

There is a lot that can be learned from this gofundme campaign for the 503. $66K in a week or so not too shabby, so what was the secret versus, say, other similar rail preservation campaigns that only bring in a small percentage of the goal?

Drama always helps sell an idea and there's plenty of drama here. Local media seems to have been helpful. Use of various web sites to make the campaign known helped as was the heavy use of social media. As to facebook I am a member of several groups ranging from full sized stuff to model stuff. I was surprised to see that the 503 campaign even made it to the model forums. That's pretty amazing. And by the looks of it, there are those interested in local history (RR and town) who are supportive.

So, really a perfect rail related gofundme storm. A good cause, drama, conventional media support, social media support, good people involved.

In truth, I am still trying to sort out for myself which was more important here - the drama element or the strong social media foot print of Jason and Nick.

Again, all points to keep in mind for anyone who is looking at using gofundme for a rail preservation project in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:31 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 406
The Council will discuss the legal issues with the City Attorney as item one at the City Council Special Executive Meeting at 4:00 PM CST. This is a closed meeting (executive session). A section of the agenda from the website is attached. 1000 Gulfway Drive is Bryan Park where 503 is currently located. The executive session is not streamed, but any motions coming out of executive session are read in public and on the live stream after the session which occurs prior to the regular meeting.


Attachments:
Special Session.pdf [512.36 KiB]
Downloaded 64 times
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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:08 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:08 am
Posts: 60
JR May wrote:
So, really a perfect rail related gofundme storm. A good cause, drama, conventional media support, social media support, good people involved.

In truth, I am still trying to sort out for myself which was more important here - the drama element or the strong social media foot print of Jason and Nick.


Strong social media footprint seems to have helped enormously as the word got out among the rail community as well as more historical folks who like to browse Gofundme for good causes. The Drama perhaps not as useful but instead the urgency behind the campaign definitely proved quite powerful. Every video and other element is very much an urgent feeling "Save it now now now!" feel which works really well.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:19 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 72
Location: Michigan
Among the items that really worked together in concert were the live stream videos with Jason & Nick, the detailed on-the-spot inspection, coverage in a number of places from Facebook's "Ahead of the Torch" group (and a number of others) to Trains Magazine's newswire, and the immediacy of the issue really made it unique and set apart from other projects. Also the timing of things really had an impact too as it started on a Friday evening as the work week was ending, so many are starting to pay more attention to hobbies and social media than during the week. Once the new work week started, the whole campaign had already become noteworthy and had real traction. Enough that even some non-railroaders I know were interested somewhat in the whole deal.

Adam


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