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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:26 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 552
I guess I implied there could have been criminal action, which are certainly strong words. But what I really do mean to imply, is that someone, somewhere, has acted unethically. Being unethical isn't always criminal. I can't yet say whom or when, but this story involved someone telling someone else lies.

I can say, for certain, that 35k is complete BS price for scrap. It just aint real. I've personally checked from one end of the scrap supply chain to the other, spoken with the buyers. 35k is beyond what is currently paid by the mills(end user) for melt scrap DELIVERED.

There would be nothing illegal about the city scrapping or selling the engine, as long as it was done on the record. Right now, the city is taking the stance that they never made any decision to be rid of 503. On the surface, that seems supported by the fact that they asserted ownership in city council.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:26 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:08 am
Posts: 60
p51 wrote:
Pegasuspinto wrote:
Either a 'rouge' city person 'gave' the loco to the scrapper, improperly, or the city council tried to run a fast one and get rid of it, or the scrapper misrepresented himself as the rightful owner, or..well, other worse possibilities.

OR, more likely, the city wanted to get rid of an "eyesore" that they didn't think anyone would miss, then after hearing of hundreds of people who DO care and then realizing the engine has a value, back-paddled at these things they never saw coming.


Isn't the city short on cash as well? As I said a few pages ago it's gone from "get rid of the annoying rusting thing to redevelop" to "What the heck do you mean it's worth nearly 6 figures?"

They're certainly being professional about it... but also bleeding obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:05 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:27 am
Posts: 50
Location: Dallas, Texas
For those who did not see the City Council Meeting. The segment about the 503 can be seen here.

http://portarthurtx.swagit.com/play/02272018-1226/14/

Discussion To Discuss And Possibly Take Action Regarding The Abatement, Remediation And Related Matters As It Pertains To KCS Engine No. 503 Located In Bryan Park ( Requested By Council member Doucet)


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:49 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 563
An article that the Port Arthur news published at 9:23 pm Tuesday, February 27, 2018:
Quote:
The citizens of Port Arthur will soon get a chance to make their feelings known regarding the fate of Kansas City Southern’s Arkansas & Louisiana No. 503 locomotive housed at Bryan Park on Gulfway Drive in Port Arthur.

Harold Doucet Sr., District 4 city councilman, requested a discussion about the abatement, remediation and related matters to the 503 at the regular meeting of the Port Arthur City Council Tuesday night. After the discussion and a presentation the Council approved scheduling a special meeting at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday, March 6, at city hall to receive public comments and make a decision about the locomotive.
The full article: PA Council to listen to the public on No. 503 at next meeting


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:13 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3943
Location: Maine
Speculative comments, but from experience I would offer:

The locomotive was donated to represent the age of steam, which few living people in the community remember or care about.
The locomotive was in need of some investment to make it presentable.
It appeared to be a neglected and ready source of cash for the city, in the form of scrap.
Whether the locomotive was scrapped or preserved meant nothing to whoever negotiated the transaction.
The buyer might have been a preservationist poser, but a scrapper in actuality.
The locomotive apparently has value as an asset, and regains some respect, although nobody in charge has a clue.
The council decides to squeeze this "lemon" for all it's worth.

Our guys are now in phase two of trying to do what should be done to save a priceless artifact.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:32 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 492
Location: Winters, TX
I suppose the main thing to take away from all this is that the locomotive will continue to exist, something that looked unlikely a couple of weeks ago. Sounds like next week's council meeting will be chock full of concerned citizens who will demand that the city keep ol' 503 even though they won't lift a finger or donate a nickel towards its well being. The council will pat itself on the back for saving this priceless artifact and protecting the health and well being of its citizens by working day and night to remediate the deadly asbestos from this treasured asset. A coat of paint will be slapped on it, a rededication ceremony will take place where the children's choir will sing "I've been working on the railroad" and life will go on.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:06 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
So, what's going to happen to the money in the gofundme account? Will it be returned?


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:23 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:28 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Florida
train guy wrote:
So, what's going to happen to the money in the gofundme account? Will it be returned?



Tune in next Tuesday to find out!


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 774
train guy wrote:
So, what's going to happen to the money in the gofundme account? Will it be returned?


It's been posted on the fundraiser page since the start that of the effort that if things didn't go through or happen as planned, the money would be returned: https://www.gofundme.com/help-save-the- ... friends-of

These continued "oh, what will happen to the money posts?" may be in good faith, but the implication that these guys would "take the money and run" is in bad taste given how forthcoming they've been and how obviously attached to the project they are.

That's not to naively assume the world runs on rainbows and gumdrops, but it's not as if they haven't addressed this potential outcome.

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Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Inc
http://www.fwrhs.org


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:49 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 395
Baldwin feeder wrote:
train guy wrote:
So, what's going to happen to the money in the gofundme account? Will it be returned?



Tune in next Tuesday to find out!


Same Bat-Time, same Bat-Channel!

Kidding aside, it would be interesting to see if there was a large uptick in the number of eyeballs on the live feed of last night's Council meeting vs a typical meeting and also if the archived segment of the 503 discussion is being streamed more than average.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I suspect that Charlie's post above says it well. From listening to all the testimony at last nights meeting ( via web connection ) my best guess is that the council will hear from a bunch of locals who will plead the case for keeping this " historic treasure" in Port Arthur and don't let it go to Florida under any circumstances.

It's pretty obvious how we've gotten to where we are. Someone in the City's administration came up with a painless way to get rid of an environmental pain in the neck at no cost to the cash starved City. We'll "give" it to the scrapper in return for his getting rid of the asbestos, cutting it up into little pieces and trucking it away and then arranging for the short stretch of ground under where it sat for years to be remediated. We get the State off our back regarding remediating the ground under where it sits, it doesn't cost us a dime in cash and we'll be rid of an eyesore no one cares about.

Fair deal all around as the scrapper no doubt told them he would only make a very modest profit after he paid to get rid of the nasty asbestos, cut the engine into manageable sized hunks and cleaned up the ground it sat on.

Had Jason & Company not gotten wind of it there's little doubt that by now it would have been all done, new grass seed planted where it used to sit and the City's problem solved for no cash outlay.

Now things have gotten complicated. The local press is asking why the rules about public disclosure were not followed. Who selected the scrapper? Were there competitive bids solicited from other scrappers? Who established the scrap value of the 503? Who established the value of the asbestos removal? Who established the value of the ground remediation? Why was there no public discussion on whether or not the citizens of Port Arthur want to lose this historic treasure? On and on and on.

My best guess is that the odds favor the Council next week voting to not sell the 503 to anyone, putting out an RFP to lay 100 ft. of panel track so the 503 can be rolled off the pad it now sits on to allow the underneath ground to be cleaned up, and then rolled back where it sits today. They'll petition the state to give them an extension of the ground clean up deadline.

A few weeks later they'll publicly review the responses to the RFP, select a winner and do the job. Then they'll put out an RFP to have the 503 repainted, select a winner and there she'll sit for another few decades with few caring.

If something like that is the outcome then it will fall upon Jason & Co. to keep his word and refund or redirect the donations generated on the GoFundMe page.

Time will tell. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Quote:
These continued "oh, what will happen to the money posts?" may be in good faith, but the implication that these guys would "take the money and run" is in bad taste given how forthcoming they've been and how obviously attached to the project they are.


That was not my intention. I was simply wondering if the money could be used to support the 503 restoration if the locomotive stays in PA, or if the money could be used to fund another recovery/restoration effort. Seems a shame that it cannot be used for some type of railroad-related preservation/restoration if this deal should fall apart.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 395
co614 wrote:
(1) the City's problem solved for no cash outlay; (2) Were there competitive bids solicited from other scrappers?; (3) They'll petition the state to give them an extension of the ground clean up deadline.; and (4) A few weeks later they'll publicly review the responses to the RFP, select a winner and do the job. Then they'll put out an RFP to have the 503 repainted, select a winner and there she'll sit for another few decades with few caring. Time will tell. Ross Rowland


According to what has been previously posted elsewhere:
(1) The original contract calls for Inland to be paid around $24K;
(2) The City solicited bids from three remediation companies that had previously done this type of work for them;
(3) The City asked the state for more time based on the circumstances over a week ago;
(4) Get your facts straight before you prognosticate.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 95
Location: walton, ky
Bainbridge Georgia did a similar thing a few years back with an L&N 0-6-0 that now resides in Corbin, KY and looks incredible. Many locals showed up to speak about the engine they grew up playing on. Ultimately, the town decided they didn't want to invest in a loco in town and it got sent to Corbin where Wasatch did a cosmetic restoration on it.

Here's hoping the city council sees the benefit of either donating the locomotive to the L&A 503 preservation trust so that the engine may get a chance to run again. Otherwise, it's having a static deteriation test in Port Arthur.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 774
train guy wrote:
Quote:
These continued "oh, what will happen to the money posts?" may be in good faith, but the implication that these guys would "take the money and run" is in bad taste given how forthcoming they've been and how obviously attached to the project they are.


That was not my intention. I was simply wondering if the money could be used to support the 503 restoration if the locomotive stays in PA, or if the money could be used to fund another recovery/restoration effort. Seems a shame that it cannot be used for some type of railroad-related preservation/restoration if this deal should fall apart.


Understood. It's also posted at the link that donors can have their donation made to a railroad preservation group of their choosing.

_________________
Kelly Lynch
Vice President
Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Inc
http://www.fwrhs.org


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