Railway Preservation News :: View topic

So I'm assuming that...

The people may want the locomotive to stay, but the council would be bad stewards if they spent money the flood-ravaged city couldn't afford.

My big fear is the city will decide to keep the engine, and we'll be having this same discussion a decade from now. After what's been allowed to happen to the engine for the past several decades, I'm not sure all these "locals" who suddenly want to see the engine stay in Texas really have the best interest of the locomotive in mind.

972 survives in a cocoon, tenderless, in downtown Houston, with virtually certain scrapping in its future because no one wants it.

Reflecting on last nights PA City Council meeting I think its rather strange that not a word was said about the GO Fund ME campaign nor the options that makes possible for the city??

You know full well they all were very aware of it and had decided it wasn't in their best interest to acknowledge it.

Bainbridge Georgia did a similar thing a few years back with an L&N 0-6-0 that now resides in Corbin, KY and looks incredible. Many locals showed up to speak about the engine they grew up playing on. Ultimately, the town decided they didn't want to invest in a loco in town and it got sent to Corbin where Wasatch did a cosmetic restoration on it.

Here's hoping the city council sees the benefit of either donating the locomotive to the L&A 503 preservation trust so that the engine may get a chance to run again. Otherwise, it's having a static deteriation test in Port Arthur.

Joe

Just look at what the federal gov't. has gotten involved in since WW11 and you find me 1 thing that's ended well.

Author:	co614 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
I would strongly suggest that Jason update the GoFundMe page so as to notify the donors of the latest developments, as many ( most?) of the 1200 plus donors don't follow this on sites like RyPN and are no doubt in the dark. IMHO-Ross Rowland

Author:	elecuyer [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
Jason has been exceptionally good about posting well thought out updates during this entire process. Every update has directly answered any feedback/criticisms he has seen. I have no fear that he will be posting something soon. Let's remember that he (and Nick) both have full-time jobs that are not in front of a computer all day. I would imagine it will be a video update - they are easiest to do and get, by far, more eyeballs/interest than written postings on Facebook. In fact, their level of updates and transparency has been far superior than any other GoFundMe campaign that I have ever contributed to (inside or outside of rail preservation.)

Author:	RCD [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
So I'm assuming that the contractor that was hired by the town to remove it had a "move by date". If that day comes up and nothing is done what's to stop the contractor from fulfilling the contract and cutting up the locomotive? Have the town contacted the contractor and modified the contract?

Author:	aswright [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
RCD wrote: So I'm assuming that... RCD, Please read through the posts on the previous page or two as these do good job explaining the situation. Adam

Author:	Mount Royal [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
I like the idea of having supporters with local ties to show up at the meeting. I’d be happy to, but I can’t afford to fly down there for the meeting nor do I have the available time. I would suggest that those who intend on speaking during the public comments should carefully prepare their comments and themselves for the delivery. The press/media might be in attendance as well. The story isn’t quite over. On another note, I remember the T&NO #975 up in Beaumont and it’s well covered move to IRM. I was still living in the area at the time and visited the engine prior to the move and then again while she waited in the UP yard just under I-10 for departure. I do not remember details of its transfer from the city, but I wonder if its story may be of interest or provide a useful reference in what’s happening in PA now. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the topic can chime in.

Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org/forums/

Trying to save the 503 http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41678	Page 16 of 33

Author:	elueck [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
Locomotive preservation on the Gulf Coast west of New Orleans seems to have never been a good thing. Only the 745 in New Orleans has had a good history. Lafayette, LA had two steam engines, the beautiful 4-4-0 Sabine, which was donated to a WW2 scrap drive, and the sister of the 745, the 743, which cut up to increase parking space at the city golf course. Beaumont had the 975, which survives in Illinois, only because IRM was willing to take it. 972 survives in a cocoon, tenderless, in downtown Houston, with virtually certain scrapping in its future because no one wants it. 771 went from Victoria to Grapevine for preservation and operation but was so damaged by the mover as to make either cost prohibitive. 786 operated in Austin for years but has been in pieces now for well over 20 years. The locomotives in Galveston, and the 503 have now been flooded twice in the last 12 years by hurricanes. Only the locomotives in San Antonio and north of Houston seem to have fared better.

Author:	railfanmag [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
The other piece of this is cost to a city that has no money. The people may want the locomotive to stay, but the council would be bad stewards if they spent money the flood-ravaged city couldn't afford. Jason and Nick can provide a way for the locomotive to simply vanish, with the only cost to the city being what they (may or may not have) contracted with the scrapper and already spent. If the engine stays ins town, the lead paint stays in town with it. If the engine leaves town with Jason and Nick, the paint leaves town as well. That's a huge savings for the city. My big fear is the city will decide to keep the engine, and we'll be having this same discussion a decade from now. After what's been allowed to happen to the engine for the past several decades, I'm not sure all these "locals" who suddenly want to see the engine stay in Texas really have the best interest of the locomotive in mind.

Author:	p51 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
googanelli wrote: Bainbridge Georgia did a similar thing a few years back with an L&N 0-6-0 that now resides in Corbin, KY and looks incredible. Many locals showed up to speak about the engine they grew up playing on. Ultimately, the town decided they didn't want to invest in a loco in town and it got sent to Corbin where Wasatch did a cosmetic restoration on it. Yeah, and that locomotive looked terrible down by the river in Bainbridge (in a horrible place to preserve a locomotive). Heck, most local area train fans never went down there to look her over! Even though I grew up in nearby Tallahassee, I was glad to hear she went somewhere she'd be looked after. railfanmag wrote: The people may want the locomotive to stay, but the council would be bad stewards if they spent money the flood-ravaged city couldn't afford. and here, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'd never want to be a politician! This is a true "darned if do and if you don't" scenario. You either are the evil people who sold/gave away the 'beloved' old steam engine, or the idiots who spent money on it that would have been better spent on the homeless problem or drug addiction programs... railfanmag wrote: My big fear is the city will decide to keep the engine, and we'll be having this same discussion a decade from now. After what's been allowed to happen to the engine for the past several decades, I'm not sure all these "locals" who suddenly want to see the engine stay in Texas really have the best interest of the locomotive in mind. They're reverse-NIMBYS, Steve. They're the types who don't want anything in their town taken somewhere else, even though they never cared about it until someone else did. Sort of like the girl who dumps a guy, then does everything she can to torpedo his chances with any other woman; she don't want him, but by God, nobody else can have him either!

Author:	co614 [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
Steve and Lee you both make good points. Reflecting on last nights PA City Council meeting I think its rather strange that not a word was said about the GO Fund ME campaign nor the options that makes possible for the city?? You know full well they all were very aware of it and had decided it wasn't in their best interest to acknowledge it. Still no update by Jason on the GFM page. Ross Rowland

Author:	rock island lines [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
elueck wrote: 972 survives in a cocoon, tenderless, in downtown Houston, with virtually certain scrapping in its future because no one wants it. SP 982.

Author:	railfanmag [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
co614 wrote: Reflecting on last nights PA City Council meeting I think its rather strange that not a word was said about the GO Fund ME campaign nor the options that makes possible for the city?? You know full well they all were very aware of it and had decided it wasn't in their best interest to acknowledge it. I'm sure everyone on the council was aware that there would be a motion to have some kind of hearing on the locomotive. Thus, anything said last night would have to be repeated in front of the constituency next week. In the interest of time, it was best just to save all comments for next week.

Author:	Frisco1522 [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
Our group (St Louis Steam Train Assn) went through the same kind of bureaucratic goat rope in Tulsa when we attempted to buy, rent,lease, borrow or have the 4500 donated to us. We planned to restore it to operation because 1522 was down. We made what I call a damned good argument and presentation. We had gone down and done a thorough inspection and thought that other than solid bearings, she would have been a dynamite engine. We met with city officials and were given encouragement. Then stonewalled. At the time, the engine was sitting on a siding stripped down with jacketing and parts strewn in the weeds, winos living in the firebox and very forlorn. The engine was/is in beautiful condition, all asbestos gone and very little corrosion on the boiler shell. Boiler was pristine and mechanically she was a low mileage after overhaul engine. Needless to say, we were very disappointed. At least she has been cosmetically restored and looks good. Ah, but what might have been. Its been said that if the government was in charge of the Sahara desert, in five years there would be a sand shortage.

Author:	co614 [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
I've often thought that a 3rd. thing should be added to the often used saying " the only things for sure are death & taxes" namely, the "only things for sure are death, taxes and whatever the gov't. touches will end poorly". Just look at what the federal gov't. has gotten involved in since WW11 and you find me 1 thing that's ended well. Sad but true. Ross Rowland

Author:	RookieFireman [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
googanelli wrote: Bainbridge Georgia did a similar thing a few years back with an L&N 0-6-0 that now resides in Corbin, KY and looks incredible. Many locals showed up to speak about the engine they grew up playing on. Ultimately, the town decided they didn't want to invest in a loco in town and it got sent to Corbin where Wasatch did a cosmetic restoration on it. Here's hoping the city council sees the benefit of either donating the locomotive to the L&A 503 preservation trust so that the engine may get a chance to run again. Otherwise, it's having a static deteriation test in Port Arthur. Joe Not to be a debbie downer about that 0-6-0, but the lettering is already peeling off of it in places, and it doesn't hold up well to a visual inspection from less than 15 feet away. Many locals to Corbin (several CSX guys I have talked to as well) have voiced that they believe the restoration was a waste of money. That aside, I'm very thankful that it was saved (as we are certainly in short supply on L&N steam). Link to photo: https://imgur.com/syYbIEJ

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Author:	Steve DeGaetano [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Trying to save the 503
co614 wrote: Just look at what the federal gov't. has gotten involved in since WW11 and you find me 1 thing that's ended well. The moon landing? Interstates?