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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Pegasuspinto wrote:
The citizens overwhelmingly spoke to KEEP the train. The citizens were pretty insulted that someone wants to take it to Florida.


It is important to remember that just a few weeks ago the citizens, the Council and the city manager had absolutely no problem with it being cut up and "disposed" of.

And SIGNED a contract and paid money to make THAT HAPPEN.


Exactly, Rick! Well said! I don't know why Mr. Board of Directors Member and others don't realize this. The citizens of Port Arthur would be wanting to keep a pile of cut up scrap.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1745
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Rob, how you can have any willingness to try to deal with this totally incompetent group is beyond me.

The City attorney's presentations bordered on incoherent, the Mayor hasn't got a clue of how to Chair a meeting ( what's Roberts Rules ? ) and the poor citizens who all wanted "their train" to "stay home" have zero understanding of the big picture.

In one respect Rob you may be right. After watching this sad show tonight I'd guess it will take them a year or so to organize a local effort to repaint the engine, sit it on a new pad somewhere in the park and then forget it. And then xx years down the road when its again an eyesore and there's no Jason around they'll decide that the only answer is to scrap it. That's very possible.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 563
wilkinsd wrote:
Pretty sure that had Jason and Nick not stepped up, the 503 would be razor blades by now. Like I said, from day one of this, you have pretty much practiced onanism to the idea that this would fail, from your expert proclaimations that the money couldn’t be raised to today. I hope you enjoy your moment as “expert.”


You may be right, and he did save the 503 from scrap. But you TAKE THE HINT when the council member tells you 'NO decision has been made on OUR train" and run with it. Maybe the council changed their mind, or maybe this was about to happen without them knowing, and they put a stop to it. But they clearly wanted to project the idea they hadn't made a decision, and informing them of their errors in session is a mistake.

I don't know that it's fair to say the council and citizens "had no problem with it" but like so many things that happen in government people are often not aware until it's too late.

I certainly don't disagree that remaining in PA under the current circumstances is probably not best for 503. It's hard to imagine the city will change it priorities over the long term and support the needed preservation costs. But the idea that 503 leaving was for the best needed to be SOLD to the citizens, not give them the idea that 503 was being stolen from them in the 'cover of darkness'.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Pegasuspinto wrote:
wilkinsd wrote:
Pretty sure that had Jason and Nick not stepped up, the 503 would be razor blades by now. Like I said, from day one of this, you have pretty much practiced onanism to the idea that this would fail, from your expert proclaimations that the money couldn’t be raised to today. I hope you enjoy your moment as “expert.”


You may be right, and he did save the 503 from scrap. But you TAKE THE HINT when the council member tells you 'NO decision has been made on OUR train" and run with it.


I'll remember to consult you as the all-knowing expert on all things regarding local Texas politics the next time the issue comes up.

Will you at least admit here, publicly, that you were wrong when you pronounced that the money couldn't be raised? It'd go a long way in restoring your credibility and that of the Cotton Belt Historical Society, which you represent.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:11 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:27 am
Posts: 50
Location: Dallas, Texas
Trains Magazine's byline on tonight's Port Arthur's City Council meeting.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... en-wheeler


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2417
co614 wrote:
Rob, how you can have any willingness to try to deal with this totally incompetent group is beyond me.

The City attorney's presentations bordered on incoherent, the Mayor hasn't got a clue of how to Chair a meeting ( what's Roberts Rules ? ) and the poor citizens who all wanted "their train" to "stay home" have zero understanding of the big picture.

In one respect Rob you may be right. After watching this sad show tonight I'd guess it will take them a year or so to organize a local effort to repaint the engine, sit it on a new pad somewhere in the park and then forget it. And then xx years down the road when its again an eyesore and there's no Jason around they'll decide that the only answer is to scrap it. That's very possible.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland


I hear you, Ross.

Optimism is a heavy weight to bear, but it’s my burden. When it comes to steam, you, George Hart, Dwight Smith and a handful of others active in the ‘70’s share the blame (or credit) for making a much younger me believe in the unlikely or impossible.

Jason, Nick and 1230 friends renewed that spirit.

Whatever happens, it is a moment that will not be forgotten. Those of us who took the ride with Jason are in pretty good company.

All the best,

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:42 pm
Posts: 28
Sheesh. Play nice, children. Looking at you, wilkinsd.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
In my professional life, I tend to think sitting back and throwing blame around is counterproductive. We can often learn a lot from failure, if we are willing to put aside our more base instincts. It's easy to sit behind a computer tonight and type "I told you so!" It's more difficult to sit down and figure out what went right and what went wrong.

First, I think we learned that in emergency situations RYPN, and social media were both very valuable. Go Fund Me is a good tool, and provided a ready made platform to accept the donations to save the 503.

Without assigning blame, or trying to act smarter-than-thou, what can we do better next time? What can we learn from this experience to improve our own organizations? That's what we should really be talking about tonight, as it is more productive.

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 142
Location: Pennsylvania
At this point, rather than bashing the city of Port Arthur, I feel the best path forward would be to offer to help the city cosmetically restore/relocate the 503 and set up some sort of group to care for the locomotive. If the city is unwilling to accept assistance, then I would suggest we as a community keep an especially close eye on this locomotive (watch from the shadows how the city cares for and maintains 503) should this situation arise yet again.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:18 am
Posts: 182
I would consider the events of the past few weeks, all things considered, to be indicative of a Pyrrhic Victory of sorts. The end goal was met, though through means not intended. The 503 is Intact, and it possibly has more of a future in front of it as compared to when it was facing a scrapper.

The Pyrrhic part of this debacle comes as it's still ultimately in the hands of a town that just weeks ago was keen on scrapping it. There will undoubtedly be a future price to pay regarding the locomotive and the outcome of this event.

In the meantime, I see two options; Warchest the donated funds for a possible replay of the very same events, or offer a helping hand of volunteer labor to keep the locomotive beautiful in PA. Perhaps both should be in order.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 563
wilkinsd wrote:
Will you at least admit here, publicly, that you were wrong when you pronounced that the money couldn't be raised? It'd go a long way in restoring your credibility and that of the Cotton Belt Historical Society, which you represent.


Fine, I can admit that I was wrong, and he did manage to raise an impressive amount of money.

As for how it reflects on the CBRHS, you apparently already didn't think too highly of us, so no loss there. As my silly signature says, my opinion is not a statement of the CBRHS, only my own.

I don't think Jason had any bad intentions. I just don't think his style and energy appeals to the non-foamers. That's a common theme among a lot of RR 'preservationists'. Selling inside the 'community' is deceptively easy. It encourages tunnel vision. I don't have a magic bullet but I sure saw some monster potholes ahead, and I know I wasn't the only one.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 497
Location: Winters, TX
I was thinking along the same lines as what 0484 said. Maybe find a way to use the fund money to finance a decent cosmetic restoration.

And Mr. Wilkins, could you give it a rest. Mr. Longhofer provided some valuable information and insight into the topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 51
wilkinsd wrote:
In my professional life, I tend to think sitting back and throwing blame around is counterproductive. We can often learn a lot from failure, if we are willing to put aside our more base instincts. It's easy to sit behind a computer tonight and type "I told you so!" It's more difficult to sit down and figure out what went right and what went wrong.

First, I think we learned that in emergency situations RYPN, and social media were both very valuable. Go Fund Me is a good tool, and provided a ready made platform to accept the donations to save the 503.

Without assigning blame, or trying to act smarter-than-thou, what can we do better next time? What can we learn from this experience to improve our own organizations? That's what we should really be talking about tonight, as it is more productive.


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Alberta, Canada
cood101 wrote:
In the meantime, I see two options; Warchest the donated funds for a possible replay of the very same events, or offer a helping hand of volunteer labor to keep the locomotive beautiful in PA. Perhaps both should be in order.

Could this money be a starting point for the "Emergency Locomotive Fund"?

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 Post subject: Re: Trying to save the 503
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:05 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:08 am
Posts: 60
SD70dude wrote:
cood101 wrote:
In the meantime, I see two options; Warchest the donated funds for a possible replay of the very same events, or offer a helping hand of volunteer labor to keep the locomotive beautiful in PA. Perhaps both should be in order.

Could this money be a starting point for the "Emergency Locomotive Fund"?


GoFundMe has lots of legal gubbins behind it that you have to use the money for the purpose it was stated to be raised for, or return it. So in theory, no.


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