It is currently Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:15 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Posts: 4
Hello Railway Preservation. I'm working with the National Park Service to produce a short video focusing on the Pullman-Porter experience (1870s-1900s).

In research I was directed to this forum as it might be my best bet to locate a train car from that era.

By chance could anyone help me out? :D
Thank you so much in advance!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 606
RYPN members have (or can point you to) everything from cars on static display to those which meet Amtrak specifications and can operate in regular train service.

To answer your question, they would need more information about your project, such as:

Where are you located?

What do you need? (a prop to film people, photograph it in motion, etc.)?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Posts: 4
Fair enough! We are in the VERY early stages of planning. I.e. are we going to make a video with still images? OR can we actually find a car to film in and do a live action video.

That being said, we are located in Kansas City, but are willing to travel for sure!

In a perfect world we would have a wooden car with all the detail of a Pullman car in the 1870-1900 time frame (not metal car). And even more perfect would be to find a Porter uniform to put on an actor.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 201
One of the best preserved wooden Pullman cars is located at Robert Lincoln's home at Hildene in Manchester, Vermont. This car has been fully restored and is from the era when Robert Lincoln was Chairman of the Pullman Company. The car dates from about 1905 and is a beauty.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Posts: 4
I literally just stumbled upon the Sunbeam 1 hr ago! I'll be reaching out to them tomorrow!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1079
Keep in mind, however, that "Sunbeam" is not your run-of-the-mill Pullman sleeper. Rather, it is a luxurious private car.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5921
Do any wood bodied Pullman's with sections (upper/lower berths), still exist?

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm
Posts: 4
That is what I'm trying to find out Les :)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:35 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2597
Location: Northern Illinois
I don't think so. The big problem is most Pullman cars were not railroad owned, at least not in that period. The usual progression to preservation is first class service -> second class service -> company work service as bunk cars, etc, then someone realized what a jem the car is, and saves it. The Pullman Company had no use for work cars, other than the "porter's cars" they used for storage and possibly housing at terminals, and those were swapped out for newer cars as they became available, and a lot of antiquated steel cars became available at the end of WWII. The oldest intact open section Pullman cars are the early steel cars, such as the 1910 INGLEHOME at the Illinois Railway Museum, and several others. Older open section cars do exist, but they tend to be railroad owned cars built by Barney & Smith, such as the DULUTH recently acquired by Mid-Continent, or the OMENEE At the Canadian Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook, BC, which, despite its location, was an American built and owned car. The fact that these were built by Barney & Smith possibly should not rule them out, as before Pullman opened his own car works, they purchased most their stock from the Ohio firm.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:23 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 154
Something to keep in mind is that Pullman was both the builder and operator of the sleeping cars. For the time period that you are looking for, Pullman (true to its name - Pullman Palace Car Company) built and operated very opulent sleeping cars.

These cars were replaced with larger wood cars and later steel cars, mostly before WWI. Soon after the war changed safety requirements forced the retirement of other cars from revenue service. The cars that remain from this time survived because they were built for non-common carrier service. I.e. they didn't carry paying passengers. For a current example think of a Boeing 737 built as a corporate private jet vs. one for an airline. However, there are some cars built for non-common carrier service that have design elements identical to cars used in revenue service (just as there are many common parts between private and commercial jets).

From my research, I think the car that has the best elements from common-carrier Pullman Palace Cars (including sections) is the Ely at the Illinois Railway Museum - built by Pullman in February, 1889. This website has photos of the interior:

http://nnry.com/history/httpdocs/pass/101ely/101ely.htm

The website for the Illinois Railway Museum is:
http://www.irm.org/

Note the Ely has space for a Pullman porter as well. A car built for revenue service would have had multiple rows of sections (vs. just 1). However, just one row gives you an opportunity to show the day vs. night conversion in a very ornate environment. The other parts of the Ely are very similar to Pullman operated observation and parlor cars, which were also staffed by porters and were important elements in gilded age rail travel.

The Illinois Railway Museum also has other equipment that would complement a film from this time period (such as a wood dining car) along with active steam locomotives that they use on their demonstration railroad. Because this is an all volunteer museum, you can feel good that your filming fees will go directly to maintaining and restoring the collection.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:56 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2597
Location: Northern Illinois
Hmm, I forgot about the open sections in the ELY, originally built for the Plant System, IIRC. The ELY also has a half width upper and lower along the aisle opposite the kitchen; one for the porter, the other for the cook. The problem with only one pair of sections is it doesn't portray the "tunnel" effect of a full section car that is so familiar to viewers of old time films. However, the INGLEHOME at IRM, with its ten sections, would do nicely for that. I'm not sure if the INGLEHOME still has a full compliment of berth curtains, but they may still be in storage in the upper berths.

Image

On Edit:

The damaged ceilings in the ELY mentioned in Mr. Baksic's text have been repaired.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:23 pm 

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 42
29PixelStudios wrote:
Hello Railway Preservation. I'm working with the National Park Service to produce a short video focusing on the Pullman-Porter experience (1870s-1900s).



I assume that you've contacted the A. Phillip Randoplh Pullman Porter Museum? That would be the first place to go with regard to the Porter experience.

The Colorado Railroad Museum has a couple of candidates as well as those mentioned - their C&S Business Car has the original berths. They (and others in Colorado) are working on Narrow Gauge Pullman sleeping cars. They also have Porter uniforms & artifacts of the era.

In terms of images, the Pullman Library has photos, drawings and other Pullman (and Budd, Standard Steel, Osgood Bradley) images. These include designs of the marquetry on the birth faces, the faux wood painting, and myriad other related images.

Numerous books would provide data. The difference between a Tourist Car, Hotel Car and Sleeping Car was critical for Porters and the railroads - esp. when you're dealing with the Plans states.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:23 pm
Posts: 21
Be sure to check out the B&O Railroad Museum.

http://www.borail.org/Locomotive-and-Ro ... oster.aspx

There are a number of Pullman builds preserved here. One of note is the Royal Blue passenger coach, built 1890. It's in great shape, residing in the roundhouse.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:11 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:37 am
Posts: 141
From my research, the only wooden-framed, wooden-bodied length to length Pullman sleeper left anywhere is in Canberra, Australia. I guess that's a bit far away, though.
Also, it is still under restoration.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pullman search! 1870-1900s
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5905
Location: southeastern USA
Going out on a limb here, I wonder if the difference in interior appearance between steel and wood cars from roughly the same era and service history would preclude shooting interior shots in a steel car and exterior shots in a wooden car whose interior was gutted long ago.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cory Bennett, Google [Bot], LVRR2095, steamfan765, Steve A W, Zach Lybrand and 77 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: