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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1312
Location: Youngstown, OH
The first thread was locked due to the posts becoming personal. This one is going the same way. I removed three offending posts that I felt did not advance the discussion. Please make your points without personal insults.

Thanks

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Rick Rowlands
J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad
"The shortest and narrowest Railroad in Ohio"


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 388
Mr. Sobczynski posted an update which includes his proposal to the City of Port Arthur.

http://nextgenrail.com/


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1724
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Seems like a very reasonable, well thought through proposal to me. Let's hope that it is well received by the Port Arthur decision makers.

Time will tell.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:00 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 41
One of the places they mention possibly taking it to for rebuilding is Atlanta. Where in Atlanta would this be?


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:53 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 234
Mtn3781 wrote:
One of the places they mention possibly taking it to for rebuilding is Atlanta. Where in Atlanta would this be?

I'd assume the Southeastern Railroad Museum northeast of the city but someone can correct me if I'm mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 388
In his April 10 Facebook update, Mr. Sobczynski said that Councilmember Lewis (who he described as one of the proposal's champions) intended to read the highlights of the Heritage Railway Operations Society Proposal For Disposition Of Locomotive 503 dated 4-10-18 at the next meeting. The Agendas for both the next Special Executive Meeting and the Regular Meeting on 4-24 are available and neither include any identifiable mention of Councilmember Lewis discussing anything related to 503.

This should be Councilmember Lewis’ last City Council meeting. In November of 2016 the residents voted to eliminate District 5 (Lewis) and 6 (Swati). The reorganization of the new seven-member Council will be implemented in May.

During the Council meeting on 3-27, there were two City Council votes with no public discussion by any of the council members prior to the votes, and no dissent from any council member, authorizing the expenditure of a minimum of an additional $40,000 over the original abatement contract cost which included Inland scrapping 503. The first was to amend Inland's contract to account for the fact that Inland will not be cutting up and hauling away 503 and will not be getting the scrap revenue. This authorized up to $35,000 to be paid to Inland, an increase over the original contract of $10,000. The second vote was to retain someone to move 503 so the abatement could be completed. This was for about $30,000 minimum, assuming they went with the lowest bidder.

As far as I have seen, the revised deadline of today, 4-20, for the City to meet the TCEQ abatement mandate had not changed. Does anyone know if the City asked for and received another extension? What is the status of the contracted work to relocate 503 within Bryan Park that was approved on 3-27? Has the locomotive been moved and the underlying ballast and soil abated?


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:28 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1345
Scranton Yard wrote:

As far as I have seen, the revised deadline of today, 4-20, for the City to meet the TCEQ abatement mandate had not changed. Does anyone know if the City asked for and received another extension? What is the status of the contracted work to relocate 503 within Bryan Park that was approved on 3-27? Has the locomotive been moved and the underlying ballast and soil abated?


In addition to these questions, I ask whether there has been any response from the Council, or others in City Administration, to Jason's proposal of 4-10.

I also would like to know whether Jason requested that his proposal be entered into the Council's agenda for a scheduled City Council meeting in which the proposal would be discussed and voted on, and if not, why not?


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 490
Location: Winters, TX
I contacted Mr. Beard through his Friends of 503 facebook page and asked about the move and remediation. He didn't comment on the move but said that the remediation work hasn't begun yet. And that once it's finished, then the local effort to restore the 503 will begin.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 490
Location: Winters, TX
Work has begun on moving the 503. Here is a facebook link:

https://www.facebook.com/KCSEngineNo503/


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 388
Charlie wrote:
Work has begun on moving the 503. Here is a facebook link:

https://www.facebook.com/KCSEngineNo503/

Thanks, Charlie. 503 is being relocated within Bryan Park by Trans-Global Solutions at a cost to the City of Port Arthur of $29,967. As originally posted, the work is to be completed by 4-30-18, so 503 should be tobogganing down greased rails to its new home in a few short days. Then Inland can complete the abatement at a cost to the City of $35,000, which is $10,000 more than Inland would have been paid if Inland retained the salvage rights to 503.

The 4-24 City Council meeting did not include any mention of 503. The two City Council seats, including Mr. Lewis' seat, are now eliminated and so the Council will now consist of seven voting members, unless Mr. Lewis' efforts to retain his seat through a DOJ injunction are successful.

It is interesting that in recent weeks the Port Arthur News, which had been very positive in covering Mr. Sobczynski's efforts in the past, has not run anything on 503 or the additional $40,000 the City is spending to keep 503 intact and in Bryan Park during the abatement process. Unfortunately, they have published several articles lately that are very negative regarding Mr. Lewis, who is Mr. Sobczynski's one publicly-named champion in this effort.

Looking at the three 503 threads and the two Amtrak private car/excursion policy threads shows how expansive the skill set to be successful in rail preservation is. RYPN is great for discussions of flue sourcing, tribology, water treatment, proper firebox construction, and many other fascinating and vital technical issues. Without equally vibrant and accurate discussions of the law (in 503's case the law of contracts) and public relations/public policy (as it relates to preservation), RYPN would be incomplete in fulfilling its mission.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1724
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Sadly, exactly as expected. Ever since that first Council meeting with its hard to believe display of gross incompetence it has been glaringly evident that the 503 was destined to remain in PA no matter the cost to taxpayers OR what was best for the engine.

Absolutely no wonder that PA's credit rating is junk bond status and for all practical purposes the City is broke.

At least Jason's efforts won the big battle of saving the old gal from being scrapped.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 388
For a locomotive the size of 503, approximately what would the cost be to cut it up on site and transport the remains to a scrapping facility at a reasonable distance from the site? With the exception of the lead paint, 503 has otherwise been abated of hazmats.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8820
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Scranton Yard wrote:
For a locomotive the size of 503, approximately what would the cost be to cut it up on site and transport the remains to a scrapping facility at a reasonable distance from the site?


It truly depends whether you're Sanford & Son showing up with a beat-up pick-up and a torch with one tank of acetylene, or a big outfit that shows up with a chopper on a hydraulic arm and big trucks. It also depends whether you deal with the asbestos, etc. properly or not.

I've seen the do-it-yourselfers go broke on acetylene just trying to scrap a wheel lathe because they had no idea how thick the thing was.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 546
7 to 10 cents a pound depending on the market, mileage, and negotiation. That is what a scrap yard might pay you if they cut it up and hauled it away.

To even start to approach the $35k figure it would pretty much have to be fully prepared scrap delivered right to an end user's site.

These prices were 2 months or so ago when this all started, so the price may have changed a bit. I spoke to both a very large area salvage buyer and also a buyer for a large steel mill that is an end user of the scrap.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 388
This latest article from the Beaumont Enterprise gives an update on the relocation of 503 within Bryan Park and also a very clear synopsis of the political situation in Port Arthur.

https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Locals-rail-enthusiasts-clash-over-historic-PA-12868961.php


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