I bet they were pissed and I’m sure their response is to keep it just to spite those who stirred the pot.

I don't think anyone here is criticizing Jason for giving it the "old college try", even if he only achieved part of what he set out to do. Haven't we all had projects that ended that way? But I do think it's useful to conduct a postmortem to identify what worked, what didn't, and why, because this isn't the last time a park steamer is going to suddenly be endangered.

I was amazed that the GoFundMe campaign raised as much money as it did as fast as it did... I suppose the hue and cry that this was an emergency had a lot to do with that. However, it is worth noting that it appears to be that very tactic later queered negotiations with the city council, so that is something to consider in the future.

I see an additional point that has not yet been raised. I recall (but can't find the reference in skimming ten pages of the original thread) that the proposed plan was to buy the engine, move it, and later resell it to a tourist railroad that would restore it to operation. I suppose this was also a hook that reeled in money in the GoFundMe campaign. There are lots of people here, and lots of fans out there, who think that running the artifact is its best and highest use. I don't particularly agree, but that's neither here nor there. However, I will state that the optics of this plan were terrible. To the Port Arthur City Council, and any concerned citizens that became aware of the situation, it basically looked like rich business owner wants to get a free locomotive at OUR expense. I think the negotiations would have had a much different tone if the 503 was destined to go to a railroad MUSEUM, possibly the one that just moved to Frisco TX, where it could be conserved, restored, and properly interpreted. 501 c 3 status would have done a lot to allay the fears that someone was getting snookered.

But of course, this is all water over the dam... Until next time.

Dennis, you do raise some good points. It struck me from the beginning that everyone was out to make a buck off the 503. My guess is that's how it appeared to the city council as well. On the other hand, when Jason came up with his game plan, he was dealing with the scrap dealer who wouldn't care what happened to the 503 as long as the check cleared. The other thing is that Jason's plan was the only one in town, no other museum was interested in it. Nor were there any other plans to save it.

For me, what it boils down to is that this is one very unloved locomotive. No one wanted the thing unless they could make some money off of it. It's unfortunate that the city got caught up in this mess and wound up spending money that they didn't really have to waste. Hopefully there will be a grass roots effort to at least do a basic cosmetic restoration on the 503. It deserves better.

I have had it alleged to me, back-channel, that the latter statement is patently untrue.

Allegedly, there were at least two other concerted proposals being made by parties in Texas to preserve this locomotive in a Texas context. These proposals were allegedly going on quietly and discretely behind the scenes when Jason & Co., being either blissfully unaware of these other attempts (a very likely scenario, from what I'm being told) or only acting in his own self-interests (I have no reason to think that's the case, but stranger things have happened), stepped up publicly with his "rescue/purchase" proposal.

I have invited those alleging this other-attempts scenario to step forward on this forum and make said allegations public. They have refused.

Now, IF any of this is true, this brings only one critical point:
This "mission" to give the loco a "better home" in preservation failed primarily because the "preservation movement's" left hand not only didn't know what the right hand was doing, but actually smacked it away.

Understand that I'm not faulting Jason & Co. for the turn of events that has transpired. He made a valiant effort which seemed to be the ONLY one on the table. If there really were other back-channel attempts, it seems no one in any position of authority knew about them--which calls into question whether anyone else was trying, or the city officials' own communications or competence.

It seems to me that outsiders were telling them what they shouldn't do, not what they should do. It's not like some foamer came to town and said "Hey, you should restore that to operation!" while it was sitting there in reasonable condition and no imminent danger of being lost. Instead, somebody said, after they started the process, "Don't scrap that, it deserves better!"

Yes, he may have made them look bad, but they brought it upon themselves by their actions.

This is the first time that I've heard about any other plans. There were rumors about other cities showing interest in the 503 but nothing seemed to come from those rumors. And there was a noted Texas railfan who went to bat with the city over the 503 and while he made them aware of other options than scrapping, his efforts didn't sway them from doing what they did.

This may get censored and I mean no disrespect to Jason, but it seems obvious to me that he was acting with his own self interest in mind as a good businessman should when a business opportunity comes along. The very first thing he did was to perform an ultrasound on the boiler which was an indication of what his interests were in the 503. Any other plans that threatened his intentions were attacked by him and those involved were labeled as obstructionists. His first post in the original thread was for everyone to "back off" unless they want to see it scrapped. And his choice to use the money to move the NKP 587 to Ravenna was another sound business move allowing him another locomotive to work on and in his home state as well. I do object with his use of the 503 GoFundMe money, but otherwise have no problem with what he has done in all of this. But I think his motivations need to be spelled out if we're going to give this project a proper autopsy.

If at all possible, I would like to learn more about these other plans.

Which, since we are analyzing strategy here to hopefully learn something for future situations of this sort, is worth noting was another miscue, since Inland didn't have good title.

I'll admit I wouldn't have known that either, but it really doesn't make any difference, because I do know that Inland has a facility located in Port Arthur. And I do know that two parties can voluntarily modify the terms of a contract, if both are willing. And I know that local companies don't like to upset the municipality they must deal with on a daily basis for permits and the like, so one could easily predict that they'd be willing, as was subsequently proven to be the case. All that being a long way of saying that the negotiations should have been with the city in the first place, since they held all the cards. Hard to say without meeting the people involved, but my first instinct would have been to talk to the city manager who did the deal with Inland in the first place. If offered a better deal, he would be the guy to present it to the council, since he would be expected to know how to navigate the local politics. He could even present it as his idea. Who cares, so long as it achieves the desired result.

It's just never a good idea to try to do an end run around the guy who has the power to stop you cold.

This is a link to the public Facebook page of the local 503 effort. I had posted this in the other 503 thread and am bringing it over to here for convenience. Rick or Randy, if you can unlock Rick's original thread and merge these two threads it would make it easier to access information regarding 503. Thank you.

https://www.facebook.com/KCSEngineNo503/

Note that the Facebook page and local effort has the recent endorsement of Skip Waters, who, according to his own post on 4-30-18, posts here as "wgcrush". Hopefully this means that local Texas and Gulf Coast rail preservationists are now going to work productively with the people in Port Arthur to provide a much-needed long-term preservation solution for 503. If Mr. Waters could provide an update on the local effort, that would be great.

I also noted one comment on the fact that it was presented to the City that the Gofundme monies could not be redirected to help with the in-place static preservation effort in Port Arthur but yet were able to be redeployed for the preservation of other equipment.

Having rejected the alternative proposed by the person responsible for the lucrative pot of GoFundMe money, whether for good reasons or just expediency or worse, why should anyone associated with the City's subsequent 'efforts' or the current local 'friends' group feel even the slightest bit entitled to any of that money?

As previously noted, the group is free to go on GoFundMe, explain their attitude, and see just how many donors respond to it. I especially look forward to their explanation about Jason trying to grab the engine with misgotten funds from the emergency campaign and how individual donors in that campaign should request Jason refund their money so it can be 'regifted' to them.

Are you seriously saying that as the paperwork wasn't right, the torches couldn't have been started up, anyway?

I think what he is saying that Inland was free to scrap the locomotive under the terms of the contract, but they were not free to do with it as they wished, as though they owned it free and clear.

I assume that the City retained ownership until the locomotive had been scrapped and the contract was fulfilled. And with the City retaining ownership until the locomotive had been scrapped, they were also free to cancel that contract, as we have seen in the terms.

So, if they canceled the contract, it would have suspended the scrapping indefinitely. Therefore, if Inland had sold the engine to Jason, and he was loading it for transport, the City could have stepped in, canceled the contract, and then the deal that Inland had made with Jason to transfer ownership would have become null and void, that is if it had any validity in the first place.

P51 - The City has title to 503 until 503 ceases to exist or title is otherwise transferred. In the original contract between the City and Inland, once 503 ceased to exist because it was cut up as part of the contracted work, Inland would have had the inferred right to salvage whatever remained. This is common in construction contracts which include any demo. As I stated in a previous post in this thread, if an option to purchase the salvage rights from Inland at an agreed to price had been executed and disassembly of 503 had begun (to prepare for shipping either to a safe site or a scrap yard) by the time the City issued its stop work order, then things would have gotten interesting, especially if they got some chunks out before the stop work order was issued.

Overmod - I'm not discussing entitlement. The impression was given that the funds could not be used for a static restoration in Port Arthur. The reality is that the person responsible for raising those funds did not want the money to go to a static restoration of 503 or to present this as an option to those that donated. This could lead to the perception, correct or not, that the effort was not all about preserving 503 in any way possible, or doing what was best for 503, but rather for the preservationist to obtain a locomotive which he could then restore to operation.

Precisely. One of the things you learn after you've been in business long enough is, if you are going to buy something, make sure the seller actually owns it, or you may have to pay for it twice. Or pay for it but not get possession.

Of course Jason was acting in his self-interest -- he had to since each hour he spent on L&A 503 was an hour that he was not doing billable work!
I think Jason's reputation also made the campaign successful.

I first heard of the GoFundMe from a very accomplished photographer who described it as "Jason is going to save and restore a locomotive in Texas". I made my small donation because a competent professional needed my support, not because I was a big fan of the particular locomotive he was saving.

I second your opinion here. Jason has a history of accomplishing what he sets out to do even if not every goal is met. He is the reason 503 is still here today, albeit not as we all had hoped. Jason is someone you want on your side when working on steam.

Jason can we bribe you to get involved with the 1309 debacle? lol Seriously though 1309 needs a name like yours to protect its future for operation imho. That would be a good use for donations since many are sour about the management of funds. Having you to manage the restoration would put faith in the project again.