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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:23 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1375
The one article advocates placing a deadline on the city to rehab the locomotive and protect it for display. It seems to me that the deadline would be to get this work done, and yet the issue is not the speed of finishing the rehab work, but rather the lack of funding in a City that has other more pressing needs.

So under those terms, the deadline sounds like a deadline to either get the rehab work done or get rid of the locomotive. It seems to imply that the proper course of action would be to get rid of the locomotive because the City cannot afford to keep it.

It does seem rather ironic that this state of situation should emerge after the City made such a big deal of hanging onto the engine as a cherished heirloom. In my opinion, that was just a show of nostalgia to reverse the bad press of plotting to scrap the locomotive without asking the residents. Now that all of the ginned up enthusiasm for volunteers embracing the 503 has faded, maybe it is time for a real solution.

Maybe if the City were now approached by someone making an offer to purchase the locomotive and give it a good home, they would run that past the residents and the offer would be accepted. If a vote were taken, I would bet that there a lot more people in Port Arthur who would oppose spending money on 503 than the number of people favoring that expenditure.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 819
Ron Travis wrote:
The one article advocates placing a deadline on the city to rehab the locomotive and protect it for display. It seems to me that the deadline would be to get this work done, and yet the issue is not the speed of finishing the rehab work, but rather the lack of funding in a City that has other more pressing needs.

So under those terms, the deadline sounds like a deadline to either get the rehab work done or get rid of the locomotive. It seems to imply that the proper course of action would be to get rid of the locomotive because the City cannot afford to keep it.

It does seem rather ironic that this state of situation should emerge after the City made such a big deal of hanging onto the engine as a cherished heirloom. In my opinion, that was just a show of nostalgia to reverse the bad press of plotting to scrap the locomotive without asking the residents. Now that all of the ginned up enthusiasm for volunteers embracing the 503 has faded, maybe it is time for a real solution.

Maybe if the City were now approached by someone making an offer to purchase the locomotive and give it a good home, they would run that past the residents and the offer would be accepted. If a vote were taken, I would bet that there a lot more people in Port Arthur who would oppose spending money on 503 than the number of people favoring that expenditure.


I have the feeling that the same few loudmouth local busybodies would get in the way and gum up the works again and prevent anything good from happening to this locomotive.

The city has proven time and again that they don't want it and will not care for it, but they don't want anyone else to have it either, as that would embarass some local politicians who are laboring under delusions of their own competence.

This isn't the first time or the first place this situation has happened and played out in similar fashion. Sadly, it probably won't be the last, either.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Time to face the reality that the place is under the rule pf a collection of incompetents. Why on earth would anyone want to try and deal with them after they clearly showed who they are.

This whole sad ending was the only logical one once they put the engines future in the hands of a couple of local blowhards who have totally dropped the ball and vanished.

Let it be. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:49 pm 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 94
I have to agree with Ross. #503 is more than likely just going to sit in port Arthur and rot beyond economical repair despite my difficulty in having to say that. Once the city realized their ego was under scrutiny they backpedaled and like a high school dropout did everything to save face over on the situation. Poor 503 has to bear the price. I just hope that sometime in the future some entrepreneur will be able to save 503 from this incompetent city. As has been mentioned many times before I also think it’s time to put this subject to rest .


co614 wrote:
Time to face the reality that the place is under the rule pf a collection of incompetents. Why on earth would anyone want to try and deal with them after they clearly showed who they are.

This whole sad ending was the only logical one once they put the engines future in the hands of a couple of local blowhards who have totally dropped the ball and vanished.

Let it be. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1375
No, I think about now is the time to make a deal. Time for a new approach.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:21 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Danbury, CT
I’ll reiterate.

Whoever is going to do this will have to stroke the city’s ego. Something like....
The preservation community recognizes and appreciates the fact that this locomotive would not have survived without the stewardship of the City and its residents. We also recognize the hardships imposed upon the City over the years and most recently as a result of hurricane Harvey. Furthermore, we understand the responsibility that continued stewardship of an historic artifact such as a steam locomotive brings. We therefore respectfully request the City and its residents allow us the opportunity to assume responsibility for L&A 503’s next stage of life in preservation.

Maybe even offer to honorarily name the locomotive “City of Port Arthur” once restored or something like that as well.

_________________
Randy Patterson
RMNE/NAUG


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:12 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
The entire City Council there showed themselves to be totally incompetent and untrustworthy so why would you knowingly waste your time & effort with a group like that??

You must have something more worthwhile to do??

Let it be. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:47 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5603
Location: southeastern USA
This may be a situation where a helpful and unthreatening interested person, preferably from a not to far distant locale can periodically drop hints, expressions of polite interest, and suggestions to the local powers that be and position themselves to be first in line if and when she may actually become available. I don't think a loud proclamation pointing out incompetence and issues no matter how reality based it may be is going to be successful. The decision making has become not a rational process of consideration, but furtive ass covering shuffling in the back room........ a sense of comfort is worth more than good information under such circumstances.

_________________
Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:21 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1375
co614 wrote:
The entire City Council there showed themselves to be totally incompetent and untrustworthy so why would you knowingly waste your time & effort with a group like that??

Ross Rowland


I do not think they have shown that at all. Maybe you should try to look at it from their perspective for a change. Their reaction was entirely predictable considering the way the whole affair was handled the first time around.

As the rightful owner of the locomotive, the City made a business deal for the disposition of the locomotive. Suddenly, they were blindsided by a highly publicized fund raiser that stepped right into the City’s business deal with the bold assumption that the City no longer owned the locomotive.

We are always instructed that if we are not the owner of a piece of equipment, we have no right to offer an opinion as to what color to paint it, let alone step in without permission and paint it the color we prefer.

The highly publicized premise of fundraiser was to mount a last minute rescue of the locomotive from a fate that outsiders deemed unacceptable.

So yes, of course it all turned out the way it did. Who would expect otherwise? Look at how it would all appear to the City Council.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9104
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Mount Royal wrote:
I’ll reiterate.

Whoever is going to do this will have to stroke the city’s ego. Something like....
The preservation community recognizes and appreciates the fact that this locomotive would not have survived without the stewardship of the City and its residents. We also recognize the hardships imposed upon the City over the years and most recently as a result of hurricane Harvey. Furthermore, we understand the responsibility that continued stewardship of an historic artifact such as a steam locomotive brings. We therefore respectfully request the City and its residents allow us the opportunity to assume responsibility for L&A 503’s next stage of life in preservation.

Maybe even offer to honorarily name the locomotive “City of Port Arthur” once restored or something like that as well.


There's one other necessary step to take beforehand if this is to succeed:

You take all the bombastic Nattering Nabobs of Negativity that continually, repeatedly, and publicly engaged in name-calling and character assassination against the civic leaders, and by extension the people, of Port Arthur, over this issue.

You duct-tape their mouths shut, tie them up, dump them in duffel bags, throw them in a shipping container, and send them on a long ship voyage around the world.

Then you eradicate, as best as possible, all the insults and character assassination in which they engaged, no matter how much they may have had a right to speak their minds.

Then--and only then--do you make a fresh attempt at "saving" this locomotive from its present plight.

Because it only takes one "Superheater®", one foul-mouthed self-entitled railfan photographer, one "locomotive in a quarry" speculator to poison the experience for dozens or hundreds, and one troublemaker to make an entire otherwise-well-intentioned campaign crash and burn.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Pure Michigan
I feel like an organization similar to AOSR needs to approach Port Arthur and negotiate under the radar. That way no misguided individuals can potentially ruin the deal.

As stated earlier, we need to play to their egos.
And truthfully this locomotive would not be around had Port Arthur not said "yes" to having it be donated to their municipality in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:35 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1375
If the City Council were approached with respect and were asked to consider the ongoing cost of preserving the locomotive under shelter as an artifact; and if they were to reflect on whether this was really in the interests of the City; they might be interested in a direct sale to an organization that was dedicated to preserving such equipment and sharing the experience with the public.

This might be seen as serving a greater good. And if this were presented to their residents, I suspect that nobody would object because the idea is entirely reasonable and practical for everyone’s interests. Actually, I expect that the City Council is thinking along these very same lines right about now. That is why I say the time is right for a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 506
Location: Winters, TX
Is there any way to put this thread to bed? The recent inquiries have been answered and I'm tired of being reminded of what a fiasco this thing was. Short of a midnight visit with a coupla cranes and a really fast truck, the 503 is staying put.


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I figured that TGB 4th. would have to stick his nose in sooner or later.

Charlie is right. Let it be. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: L&A 503
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 438
Ron Travis wrote:
No, I think about now is the time to make a deal. Time for a new approach.

Since the composition of the Port Arthur City Council has not changed since the reorganization in May 2018, I do not see how their response would be drastically altered by a more conciliatory approach. That said, if you are interested in following through on your declaration, my recollection is that they allow several five(?) minute presentations per Council meeting. Put a presentation together, go to their website and call the number for the clerk or secretary, and ask to be put on the schedule. Please let us know when you will be appearing so we can watch on the live stream.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
You duct-tape their mouths shut, tie them up, dump them in duffel bags, throw them in a shipping container, and send them on a long ship voyage around the world.

Sounds like someone has been spending a lot of quality time with their Sopranos DVD box set.

NS 3322 wrote:
I feel like an organization similar to AOSR needs to approach Port Arthur and negotiate under the radar.

It is City property. It can not be disposed of "under the radar". Any transfer of title will require Council approval and the requisite opportunity for public comment.

co614 wrote:
I figured that TGB 4th. would have to stick his nose in sooner or later.

Did you enjoy it? After subjecting forum readers to your bromance all these years will you two please just get a room.


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