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Indiana Transportation Museum
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41939		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  daylight4449 [ Tue May 01, 2018 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Frank Hicks wrote:
daylight4449 wrote:
ITM has basically lost the fight in Noblesville, but they don't have to hand the city a win. A scorched earth policy is probably one of the only cards left they can viably play at this point, while denying Noblesville their victory.

With all due respect, I think you may be on the wrong site. This is Railway Preservation News. You're looking for RyIMoINN.org, "Railway It's Mine or It's Nobody's News". That's where to commend a "scorched earth policy" winning out over stewardship.


I'll point out the sentence that immediately followed that statement on my part;

Quote:
Doesn't mean that the lot of us have to like it in the mean time...


Frank, I loathe the idea of playing a scorched earth game, but for all the wrong on ITM's part, Noblesville seems to have matched that threefold. I wouldn't leave anything that they can use, just the absolute bare minimum and let them figure out the rest on their own dime...
Author:  PMC [ Tue May 01, 2018 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Are they scrapping everything, or just a few of the more forlorn L cars, it would be quite a long list if they are:
https://www.itm.org/trains

I would hope they would try donating it to other museums first, the Milwaukee units would fit in a lot of places for example.
Author:  AlcoGuy [ Tue May 01, 2018 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
My understanding is they are scraping stuff that frankly, should've been scrapped years ago. They still plan to relocate the good stuff to Logansport from what I hear.
Author:  Charlie [ Tue May 01, 2018 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
I don't suppose that they're salvaging trucks and electrical equipment from the scrapped cars?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue May 01, 2018 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
daylight4449 wrote:
wilkinsd wrote:
Yenko Stinger wrote:
From what I was told, they would scrap every piece of equipment on the property before they let Noblesville or that new scam operation get one bit of it.


That's such a mature attitude from those in charge at ITM. Really speaks well for the longevity of the operation.


Pemberton, Catskill Mountain Railroad, Adirondack Scenic to an extent, ITM... As a whole I think the entire preservation community really needs to develop some rock-solid tactics to respond to these assaults, otherwise we'll keep losing.


Didn't the folks at Pemberton make arrangements to save most of their equipment? Maybe my memory is faulty.

Les
Author:  Dave [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Charlie wrote:
I don't suppose that they're salvaging trucks and electrical equipment from the scrapped cars?


I so, I have a use for it as well........
Author:  artschwartz [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Looking at the traction equipment listed for ITM on Frank Hicks' list, I see very little that would be a major loss if it is scrapped. Certainly not the Chicago El cars or the Lackawanna MU cars. I hope that a few of the rarest pieces survive, such as the privately owned North Shore car and the Union Traction carbody in good condition.

I also expect to see a lot more scrapping of traction equipment, mostly PCC cars, in the next few years. For example, of the 29 existing Pittsburgh PCC cars, 19 are either for sale or are in such poor condition that they are only suited as sources for parts.
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Tue May 01, 2018 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
daylight4449 wrote:
Local government turns on the railroad museum, museum gets crushed under the government's heel. Pemberton, Catskill Mountain Railroad, Adirondack Scenic to an extent, ITM... As a whole I think the entire preservation community really needs to develop some rock-solid tactics to respond to these assaults, otherwise we'll keep losing.


Yes! Rock solid tactic No.1 : OWN THE LAND UNDER YOUR TRACKS! If you cannot own the railroad because you lease it from some governmental agency, buy a piece of adjacent land and make a contingency plan that allows for the equipment to retreat to that "safe space" should the SHTF.

Rock Solid Tactic No. 2 : Always be prepared for a change in leadership of the government agency and for the cozy status quo to change for the worse.

Rock Solid Tactic No. 3 : If you are a guest on someone else's property, don't piss them off!
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Tue May 01, 2018 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Rick Rowlands wrote:

Yes! Rock solid tactic No.1 : OWN THE LAND UNDER YOUR TRACKS! If you cannot own the railroad because you lease it from some governmental agency, buy a piece of adjacent land and make a contingency plan that allows for the equipment to retreat to that "safe space" should the SHTF.

Rock Solid Tactic No. 2 : Always be prepared for a change in leadership of the government agency and for the cozy status quo to change for the worse.

Rock Solid Tactic No. 3 : If you are a guest on someone else's property, don't piss them off!



This really is the best advice one could give. When I get involved with a project these days (whether it’s all-in, just helping or simply donating) a safe space for the equipment is concern #1. I will sometimes take a flier on donating to a risky project due to some emotional connection to the piece or the team, but beyond that I look for future stability. One of the reasons I embraced getting involved with fundraising for B&M #3713 is that her owners control their land, they have a full shop and a place to run. Yes, there’s a long history there but what matters to me is the promising future. She won’t be scrapped in a pissing match. I am pretty much guaranteed a positive return on the investment of my time... to be paid back by days under steam.


Rob
Author:  Scranton Yard [ Wed May 02, 2018 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Rock Solid Tactic No. 2 : Always be prepared for a change in leadership of the government agency and for the cozy status quo to change for the worse.

This is a great point. While it is important to nurture positive relationships with elected officials, administrations come and go and priorities change. To insulate one's self or group from this, it is important to cultivate productive relationships with the people who actually do the work of government - the government employees and administrators/managers. Except for an occasional politically-led personnel change, the people who work in government usually outlast multiple elected administrations and they can really be helpful in putting in the good word and in navigating the system.

The other way to hedge against change in political leadership is to form strong alliances with local chambers of commerce and the business community. If you or your organization has a good reputation as being part of the team that is positively impacting civic life and bringing money into the area economy, it will protect you come election time.
Author:  Scranton Yard [ Wed May 02, 2018 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
robertjohndavis wrote:
This really is the best advice one could give. When I get involved with a project these days (whether it’s all-in, just helping or simply donating) a safe space for the equipment is concern #1. I will sometimes take a flier on donating to a risky project due to some emotional connection to the piece or the team, but beyond that I look for future stability.


Unfortunately, a lot of people do not get this. There is an organization I am familiar with that I stay away from for this exact reason. One of the main guys is someone I've worked with in preservation in the past and who I have a lot of respect for. I ran into him a few weeks back and he was discussing a few of the challenges the organization is having and the good work he is trying to do to get the organization through them. I again brought up that the most important thing to focus on should be to identify viable locations, target some tracts, and go about raising funds and purchasing some property so the organization has a safe haven for all of its equipment. That part of the conversation did not last long.
Author:  derail [ Wed May 02, 2018 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
artschwartz wrote:
Looking at the traction equipment listed for ITM on Frank Hicks' list, I see very little that would be a major loss if it is scrapped. Certainly not the Chicago El cars or the Lackawanna MU cars. I hope that a few of the rarest pieces survive, such as the privately owned North Shore car and the Union Traction carbody in good condition.



While your are not wrong that this equipment wouldn't be a huge loss to railway preservation, if these cars can be possibly restored I have a hard time imagining they aren't worth significantly more than scrap.

Passenger cars from the 1920s give or take a decade are getting harder to find, take out the MU electrical equipment and these cars still serviceable represent the time period they were built in.
Author:  jayrod [ Wed May 02, 2018 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
I haven't found any corroboration online anywhere so let's not get too excited. Also, they may be scrapping stuff too far gone to move. Are there any ITM members here that could chip in?
Author:  AlcoC420 [ Wed May 02, 2018 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
jayrod wrote:
I haven't found any corroboration online anywhere so let's not get too excited. Also, they may be scrapping stuff too far gone to move. Are there any ITM members here that could chip in?


What kind of corroboration are you looking for?

From what I have been told, from a director, there are only a few people running the show at ITM. The membership has had NO say for a long time.

You need to go back and read some of the previous post on the ITM.

They also post nothing about the scrapping of any equipment on their website or on Facebook. The only things posted there, are what they want you to see.

A good example; In the past week or two, some cars were vandalized and a reward was posted, nothing online or in the news any more, lasted about 2 days.

Why not offer the equipment up for sale? I know people who wanted parts from the "L" cars and were told NO.

I know people who are interested in other equipment on the property as well.
Author:  AlcoGuy [ Wed May 02, 2018 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indiana Transportation Museum
Who brought in the excavator, ITM or Noblesville? I'm getting conflicting reports on this. March 1 was the eviction deadline..
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