Especially if there are any concerns about the metallurgy of the "original fabric" boiler.

I believe the progress the T1 Locomotive Trust is making May have inspired Mr. Mooreman, and Mr. Levin to hatch this excellent plan.

True, Steamloco76, but I think the technology and ability to build new boilers has always been there. I think what was missing in this case was the people with the common vision, fortitude, the right relationships and the determination to make it happen. Convincing the museum to let them manage the whole project was a major accomplishment and smart move IMO.

Rob Gardner

PRR 120, like MOST open-platform observations,has a gated center railing that opens to allow passage to other cars coupled to it. Just because it seems to always ride the rear of any train you've seen it on doesn't mean it has to.

During any AAPRCO convention train, half the cars often seem to be open-platform obs coupled to each other. The squabbles over which car ends up carrying the markers/EOT unit must be a careful exercise in either diplomacy or bidding.......

I strongly suspect that one of the factors that may be involved--and no one really wants to talk about--is waiting until the last of the original Museum patrons and benefactors, a great many of whom were former PRR employees or their families, have passed on.

I was one of the original contributors to the Museum in 1979/1980 and to the restoration of 1361, and I remember all too well the promotion--some might say even outright exploitation--of PRR pride and sentiment in not only the founding of the Museum, but the liberation of 1361 from the Curve and its restoration to operation. Yes, "home team spirit" goes a long way in getting funding and visitorship. 1361 was the "Pride of Altoona," the "Official State Steam Locomotive," and so much more. And in an economically depressed area like that, heritage and civic pride are a larger factor than in places like Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, etc. (See also Fort Wayne and 765.)

The eventual acknowledgement among professionals that not only was 1361 a lousy candidate for restoration to operation in almost every regard, but that the PRR cut corners and sloppily built said loco to factors now unacceptable to the regulators, must in some ways have gone over in Altoona about as well as the news of the malfeasance of Joe Paterno and his fellow coaches went over in Nittany Lions turf (including Altoona) as Paterno died. So any subsequent work on putting 1361 back in the public spotlight becomes not only an exercise in logistics and fundraising, but to some degree in diplomacy as well.

ADMIV - I did rewrite that sentence about three times before I hit "Submit". A new boiler is the way to go. The existing boiler will make a great interpretive piece. It has a lot of stories to tell.

Perhaps one can imagine a future T-1 with this train set, or perhaps even a double header. Mmmm...

This is wonderful news and I believe that I have the answer for what can be the home for operations. This is the Nittany and Bald Eagle Branch.

When I was with Conrail, I was the Planning Manager for Unit Train and our group owned to Buffalo Line. Our best customer, PP&L, at Strawberry Ridge was burning coal off the Mon as well as the Clearfield Cluster. I was the rep for the Route Structure Task Force from my group and we were making economic decisions on what lines to keep etc. Core, was putting pressure to get rid of all of their traffic (crew cost) on the Buffalo Line and we owned it. So it was my idea to trade CEDA-COG the Williamsport Cluster for them to open up the NBER for our coal trains. We could run with a long pool crew right to the plant and make a progressive move at Watsontown. It saved 2 crews in each direction and reduced congestion in the Harrisburg Terminal. I negotiated a 46 cent per car mile tariff to pay for the rail upkeep. We did not have any obligation to use it. NS later re-negotiated it. The state paid for the re-hab....not Conrail.

My friend Roy Blanchard did not get that correct in the Trains Magazine article. He was very much part of the deal as the go-between but it was not Jeff's idea either. You can ask all of the players from Conrail as they are all still with us. Gordon, Dan, R Paul, all know how it was put together. I also just about had the Buffalo Line sold, but the sale of Conrail stopped that. It took my boss many years after he got to NS to finalize it.

Anyway... the story that NONE of them ever knew was that I also wanted very much to preserve a place for the K4 to run. The whole operation made a lot of sense. Nobody had ever even dreamed of frac sand so the sale of the Williamsport Cluster brought joy to Gordon. The coal group had a lower operating ratio. PP&L had more reliable service. It was a smashing success. And now... with the K-4 coming back to life, the final benefit can be realized.

Wow.

Quick question? What ever happened to the tender they had acquired to build a A-tank for 1361? Is it one of the BMRR tenders now?

Robert

As of a couple years ago it was on static display in Altoona.


{photo by Mgoldman}

With men of the caliber of Messrs. Moorman & Levin you can bet that this will get done. Important to note that Mr.Levin made clear that this project is being done OUTSIDE of and independent from the ARRMM as there is still one of the two "experts" there who " managed" the disasterous 1361 project that ended in abject failure.

To the extent it matters this has been in the planning stage for several years and the decisions made are based upon extensive research and planning.

Sure will be nice to see this iconic machine back under steam.

Hearty thanks to Messrs. Levin & Moorman for taking on this considerable effort.

Ross Rowland

Unfortunately, there is one "fly in the ointment" as it were.

The Nittany and Bald Eagle was, and still is FOR THE MOMENT, run by a locally based (out of Northumberland) shortline consortium that was founded and run by Richard Robey, an unabashed railfan at heart just like the Claytors, and at the time of the first K4s revival, managed operationally by a couple other railfans with rail preservation under their fingernails--one of whom still shows up in this forum.

Robey has retired, and the "railfans" have passed on or are no longer in the company's employ. The company in question still operates public excursions now and then, tied in with community events and festivals, using a string of passenger equipment consolidated and owned by a former employee (who also put in time on 1361's first restoration, and further had spearheaded an earlier effort to re-repair 1361 "properly" (which was soundly rebuffed by the Museum).

Further, at this very moment there is active litigation ongoing over the contract to operate said lines. Long story condensed too much: Other operators allege (with due cause) that the automatic-renewal process of the designated-operator contract runs afoul of state-mandated bidding processes for said contracts, and other operators MAY end up replacing the current operator of the Nittany & Bald Eagle. At the moment, Carload Express is poised to replace the current operational team--but stay tuned.

And there's no guarantee, unless the Susquehanna Economic Development Agency-Council of Governments Joint Rail Authority (the official name of the track-owning entity) mandates it as a condition of issuing an operations contract, that any future operator will be as receptive to steam/passenger operations at the N&BE was.

Now,if you want your fantasy speculation to run amok: One of the parties that had in the past sued for the right to bid on assuming operations of the SEDA-COG JRA lines was the Reading & Northern/Andrew Muller............

I see one major gap in these well-intentioned plans: I don't see any presence of ARRMM at all in this. Without that, isn't this all a moot point?

I could start up a committee to restore a steam engine I don't own, such as the Frisco 1522, but without the cooperation of ownership, it won't go anywhere. Am I missing something here?

Chris

There are not many details so far but the facebook post did say that a committee was being formed. I imagine that ARRMM will maintain ownership and will probably receive a pre-determined percentage of ticket sales. We will have to wait for an official release to know the ins and outs, it seems.

Despite bad memories with involvement of this engine in the past, I wonder if Steamtown might be willing to host 1361 until (or if) they can get their B&A Pacific ready for excursion service?