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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:07 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
J. David Conrad used Sherwin Williams Steel-Master 9500 when he and I repainted the 0-6-0 in Gambier, OH last year. I looked through my photos and found that I took a picture of a can of paint to identify it. Although we used black for the 0-6-0 it is available in custom colors and I think that is what we are going to use for this project. This coating is a silicone Alkyd which is supposed to be able to retain its gloss longer than enamels.

I also had SW mix up a quart of all surface enamel to see how close we can get to the color working from a paint chip. I think what we came up with is acceptable.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:08 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2603
Location: S.F. Bay Area
"All-surface enamel", that's their baseline alkyd that I'm kinda 'meh' about. They make better. They make everything.

Don't be bashful about bumping up the chroma (saturation, the opposite of pastel)-- railroads weren't. I often find the true color is out of gamut for modern pigments.

In particular with yellows, lead chromate is sorely missed... Today, choose 2: lead-free, long-lasting or affordable. That is one color you want to be getting out of the expensive pigment carousel.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:11 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 822
Location: NJ
Regardless of whose paint you use, you should use the same manufacturers primer or as some stated, the entire system. Your final product will be better.

One member said that for a better shine use base and clear coat system. I personally do not like anything with a clear top coat. While it may give a nice shine, it will be a headache if the clear coat peels. Want to see and example? Watch cars on the street whose clear coat has begun to peel because of a stone ship. Once it begins to peel, there is no stopping it. So my selection would be a single stage paint. The local Auto Zone (and I am sure other parts houses too) carries quarts of premixed automotive paint in a variety of colors and they also carry the primer from the same manufacturer.

Not up to spraying? Then I would suggest (against the recommendation of a member above) Rust-O-Leum. One of our guys painted a beater car with the stuff over 10 years ago and it still looks good. But again, use the entire system, primer, finish coat.

Just my two cents.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1773
Location: New Franklin, OH
Rick,

I have vector artwork for the herald in Adobe Illustrator CS6 if you need it. I can also scale it if you provide the outside circle dimensions and send a PDF or EPS file for your local vinyl sign guy to make an adhesive mask.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
Posts: 203
You mentioned the "original yellow" color. With all due respect, weren't they originally red?

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1773
Location: New Franklin, OH
Tom,

P&LE was closely tied to and owned by NYC. IIRC, The early bay window cabooses were a boxcar brown, then green up through the PC era. When P&LE got its independence from the bankrupt PC, they embarked on a 'New Image" scheme which was black and gold (yellow).

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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2603
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Yes, clearcoat is a disaster for anything that will be kept until the paint fails. It's like a time bomb: looks great for the first 10-15 years, but then instead of looking worse so slowly that you barely notice, it goes off a cliff, looking positively awful as the clearcoat blisters off and you get a patchwork. This then moves to the top of the repaint stack, bumping something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1773
Location: New Franklin, OH
Rummaging around in the dustier recesses of my cranium, it seems to me that the clear coat is mostly for UV protection of the color coat. I wonder if it would be cheaper after ten years to clean and scuff the old clear and recoat before it tips over the point of no return. Assuming the color under neath is still bonded. Anyone ever try that or am I full of hooey?

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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
I've stayed out of this discussion because all the products I used years ago are long gone... But clear coat does have it's uses. I was never a fan because the railroads didn't clear coat, and I've always felt that the color and gloss of our restored equipment should match what it looked like in service; when freshly repainted, and also twenty years later. However, I've had experience twice with clear coat.

First time was when the Illinois Terminal 415 suburban car was restored about 1973 or so. The green sides and letterboard were done with Dulux, but the guy sourcing the paint insisted he could get the correct color for the ivory in Pittsburgh Lavex railway finish, which must have been freightcar paint. The ivory was lower gloss than the green, but looked OK... at first. Three years out, it was a chalky flat. The belt rail also had not been well sealed, and there were rust trails staining the green. I suggested we needle scale the underside of the belt rail, prime and calk it, and re-do the black stripe. Then, rub out the rust stains, wash the whole thing, and blow a coat of clear on the whole car to even out the gloss. Worked well enough, and still looks good. Of course the car has lived inside ever since it was done, which is the key.

The other time was on the North Shore "Silverliner" shadow striping job. The shadow stripes were a feather-to-nothing affair, and I was concerned that the bottom edges would weather off first, so I covered the entire striping job with a coat of clear. These were Ditzler products and have held up well, but again, the car lives inside.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:59 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
A P&LE retiree who used to paint their equipment said that they used plain industrial enamels. Nothing special. So we are pretty much being historically accurate in not using Imron or clear coats on this project.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Paint Recommendations for A Caboose
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:08 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Tom Davidson wrote:
You mentioned the "original yellow" color. With all due respect, weren't they originally red?

Tom


Red then green then yellow. This is what the 506 looked like when new. However for most of us up here in Youngstown, we remember the yellow and black cabs best and that will resonate more with our visitorship.


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