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 Post subject: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 226
Is there any safe way to display track torpedoes? Also do they become more unstable with age, more stable, or stay about the same?

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
A great many reports warn that these things are incredibly unstable and should be treated like unexploded ordnance or old, unstable dynamite, especially if they have developed any crystal-like formations on the outside. They are legally considered "Class C Explosives" and blasting agents, and, though not outright illegal to own, if you deliver them to a police or fire station, even a single one, they will cower behind furniture, tell you to take it outside, and call the "bomb squad." (Not firsthand experience, but.....)

I have an associate on Amtrak who also holds a pyrotechnician's license for fireworks display and is a weapons collector, and even he's scared by the things.

Having said that, I have never heard any direct accounts of any actually exploding and damaging persons or properties aside from idiots hitting them with sledgehammers, so my normal "skepticism meter" is running high right now. I have heard of an individual taking two old, crystalled ones to the shooting range and shooting them with large-caliber ammo to set them off, but......

The requisite YouTube video of a fool demonstrating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToayYFfPDHw

All this said, if you don't mind displaying a live grenade in your museum......


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
You should ask yourself how you would place them on exhibit safely, so no one could ever get at them? I would suggest using photos of them, not the real thing. When I worked at the recently renamed National Museum of Transportation near St Louis we found two batches of them among stored collections. They were crystallized as described and we carefully moved them outside, kept people away and called the county police. First I had to assure the dispatcher that they weren't Navy torpedoes, used by submarines. The bomb squad was glad to have them. In another case some were found in a tin can inside a recently received caboose. Always search new cars and locos very well for such hazards. In a related case a wisp of smoke was seen coming out of the not quite fully closed engineer's window of an E8 loco facing into the sun. It was a hot day and much hotter in its nose, where we found fusees giving off the smoke in a cubbyhole near the toilet. The loco had been there for some time and no one had gone through the nose area.

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:24 am
Posts: 69
Location: Cleveland, OH
Interesting that you ask this question today. In Cleveland at Midwest Railway Roundhouse yesterday we moved the explosion proof box that the C&O/B&O used to store their torpedoes and fusees in. It is a large very heavy job box made from 1/8 inch plate that is lined top, side and bottom with oak 2X6 lumber. Many years ago someone opened up the box and found a supply of torpedoes. We notified the Cleveland Fire Department and they called for the Cleveland Bomb Squad. One of the Bomb Squad crew wanted to dispose of the whole steel box and refused to handle the torpedoes. Finally after putting on personal protective armor they unloaded the box and placed the torpedoes into their container for safe disposal elsewhere. Torpedoes leach out liquid nitroglycerin which crystallizes over a long period of time. It only takes a few drips to set the whole thing off. There is no safe way to display them and I am sure that the local authorities and your insurance company would object to it. It is not unusual to see railroad lanterns sold on eBay that have torpedoes attached to the cages. Hopefully no one will get injured when handling an unstable torpedo when they are unaware of the hazard.


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:16 pm
Posts: 41
Back in the day had an associate who worked for Conrail. He would bring boxes of old torpedo's to our shooting club for us to amuse ourselves.
We'd fasten them at 100yd and shoot them off.
.22lr wouldn't detonate them, needed something with some wump.
.243 or larger needed.
They did appear to sweat nitro in the heat, but we were young and dumb and tannerite hadn't appeared yet


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Southern California
Many museums out-right banned them from their property years ago.

One of the problems of having track torpedoes on the property is that some people want to use them; they think it is "fun" to set them out on the track and have a train or streetcar run over the torpedoes and explode them. This action has been a concern to museum management people because of a concern of individuals standing near these torpedoes and getting hit by flying shrapnel.

If you want to tell people how railroads were run before radios, PTC, etc -- during the days when trains were run by train orders and timetables -- the rear flagman with his kit of flags, fusees and torpedoes becomes part of the story. Then to show what was in the kit, use photographs or maybe some harmless, dummy reproductions.

Also it would be good to show a picture and say that anyone finds such items NOT to bring them to the museum; but call the local police.

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1310
Location: South Carolina
My dad ran heavy equipment from the 1930's up into the 1980's. He worked on a bunch of defense-related construction projects during WWII.

He said a favorite trick during that time was someone would find a torpedo and fasten it to the tracks of a bulldozer when it was parked. When the machine moved forward, the torpedo would get crushed and detonate.

WELL before the days of OSHA...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 209
The main thing that should concern you about displaying them is keeping someone from pocketing one and you losing your displayed article....

They don't exude nitroglycerin as the age. Neither do fusees.

When I learned that the UP was going to cease supplying torpedos... I went through each and every engine that came through our terminal and collected every torpedo I could find. I ended up with a whole sack full. Torpedos aren't in the rulebook anymore, either, I don't think.

I ended up with a whole "walmart" plastic sack full of torpedos off those engines. A majority of them were the "lead strap" style, but a few were the newer spring steel clip type of attachment.

About a year ago, the section men were on a cleaning spree and the foreman came into the yard office carrying two unopened boxes of torpedos they dug out of their "container".. going to toss them if I didn't want them... a gross of them. I took them off his hands.

They're 1.4 explosive.. no worse than a fusee. They're made by the same company that makes fusees. The material in a torpedo will burn, just like a fusee, if you light it. I think it's compressed fusee material. Run over a fusee on the rail with a wheel and listen... it crackles and pops....

I've used that whole sack full of torpedoes over the years.. pulling stunts on other train crews is the best.

One summer night there was a train blocking our switching lead, and we were dead in the water.. couldn't switch any cars until it left.

The company that hauls railroad crews stations their vans across the street from the yard office... they park their vans there in the right of way.

I looked out the window and saw two crew vans parked side by side talking to each other there across the street, setting right alongside that train. So, I sneak out the side door of the yard office and walked along in the shadows of the railroad cars and down beside the train... and ended up about 20 foot away from the two vans... the drivers never even noticed me!

I placed 4 torpedos side by side just in front of a car's wheels... then crossed over to the other side of the train, so they wouldn't spot me, and made my way back to the yard office.

Some time goes by and the carman gives the train a highball on their air test. I told the rest of my crew what I'd done... so we were waiting in anticipation of what the van drivers would do.

That train had barely started rolling when them babies exploded.. and one van driver CAME ALIVE on the radio and started yelling at the train crew to "stop your train, stop your train, there's been an explosion".. whereupon the train crew (who wasn't in on the joke nor even heard the explosions) threw their train into emergency... dialed up the dispatcher and got him involved... and the dispatcher says he will call the terminal superintendent and get him enroute. My bunghole was puckering about that time!

We stayed in the yard office and played dumb. The dispatcher instructed the car-man to inspect the train to see if there was any obvious damage. We caught the car-man and let him in on the joke so he didn't waste his time chasing wild geese... The superintendent shows up about an hour later (he lived in a town 40 miles away). We told him we didn't know what the van driver was talking about... we didn't hear anything!

All this time, the train is setting there with all the road crossings in town blocked.. but luckily it's in the wee hours and not much traffic... we have underpasses.

That story has brought gales of laughter over the years... and it's especially funny to poke fun at the van driver (yes, he's still here) about how he handled the situation.

That sack full of torpedos has provided many hours of fun and laughter for the switch crews over the years.. I have used up about half of one box of the new ones... so I've still got about 100 left.

That white granular substance on the bottom of the fusee is a gritty sand.. that's to give it some traction so it doesn't slide along the rail as it's being run over.


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2758
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Apparently someone is still buying them.

http://www.cilexplosives.com/torpedoes.html

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Why would you even take the chance? If one self detonates, fall to the floor, gets stolen, who will be the injured party? I agree with the idea of having the state police destroy them at their ordinance pit. Displaying an oxidizing track torpedo doesn't even rate common sense.

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1730
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
About 10 years ago, I called that company to order torpedoes for my railroad. Unfortunately, I don't speak French, and they are that kind of Canadien firm.


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 746
I spoke directly to one of the companies who manufactures the torpedoes. You should, of course, make every effort to keep these out of the hands of people who are not aware of their possible dangers. If you want to display one, I would suggest taking a good picture of one, or maybe you can find a loose label in good shape and scan it, then print it out on glossy heavy paper, a piece of roof flashing and tinsnips and a little glue, maybe a thin coat of clear wax, and I'm pretty sure one could make a pretty passable track torpedo. Of course, add 'training dummy' or something on the print so some poor sap of the future doesn't end up calling the bomb squad out.

As for the manufacturer, they advised to simply use them as intended, or they simply disposed of them one at a time in a bonfire. They didn't seem to be of the opinion that they normally pose any kind of hazard at all unless directly abused. Unconfined, they fizzle and don't explode. If you store them, put them in some kind of heavy locked box.


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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:33 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2758
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Is there any record of injury or accident related to torpedoes in normal use on the railways?

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:25 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
Mikechoochoo wrote:
Is there any safe way to display track torpedoes? Also do they become more unstable with age, more stable, or stay about the same?



Short answer- No. Long answer- No.

Railroad Torpedos are explosives.

Military museums don’t display live ordinance. They display inert examples. This shouldn’t be any different.

That’s the safest course of action I can suggest as both a military veteran and a professional firefighter.

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 Post subject: Re: track torpedoes
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:00 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 344
Try to acquire inert torpedoes or have the charge safely removed, refill with sawdust and then put them on display.


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