Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Move

The Sheriff's Office will be responsible for the sale but any money for the cleanup that can not be recovered from ITM will likely come out of the City budget. So it is the City who likely has the financial interest in liquidating the assets at the least cost/most gain and it is the City who will have an interest in avoiding potential costs of environmental assessment and abatement that may be necessary if an item is scrapped. The entity actually conducting the sale is irrelevant to the discussion of the potential financial benefits to the City of intact removal of an item from the property vs. scrapping in place.

What happens if they say this:
"Clean up all that crap before they find a judge to repeal the order and allow them back in! I want it all out of there, today, now get moving!"

So, who might be the highest bidder for a large metal object and who also has the where with all to move it quickly? That would the scrap yards. Been there done that.

Bobharbison wrote:

What happens if they say this:
"Clean up all that crap before they find a judge to repeal the order and allow them back in! I want it all out of there, today, now get moving!"

Well, the Court Order, which nobody seems to be reading, by the way, clearly states it is not the city in charge of removal or cleanup. It's the Sheriff's Department. While the City may have input, it's up to the Sheriff's department to determine a removal/disposal plan. The Court in the Order actually tasked them with reporting to the Court on the process.

Aren't some pieces at ITM privately owned? Does the court order consider them to be ITM property or part of the ITM collection thereby falling under this eviction notice? Do hope said owners of the privately owned stuff like the restored operational Monon SW1 have a plan to move their stuff out.

"Spokesperson Robert Herrington told IBJ there are several privately owned train cars on the property, and the city will work to ensure they get returned to their owners or safely moved to another site.

The city will assess the property June 13 to determine what steps need to be taken to restore it, he said."

It would be nice if a full roster could be posted; showing which items will be retained by ITM, are privately owned, have been sold, or scrapped.

Also, does anyone know what the fate of Indianapolis Power & Light 0-4-0F will be? A few of these fireless engines have been scrapped in recent years.

I posted this earlier in the thread, I'm not sure if this is just ITM owned or everything on the property, but I suspect it is the former:
https://www.itm.org/trains

Also, does anyone know what the fate of Indianapolis Power & Light 0-4-0F will be? A few of these fireless engines have been scrapped in recent years.

It seems to me that the 14 Budd coaches, all of Santa Fe lineage, would be prime candidates for preservation. Where else, in this day and age, can a set of matching coaches be found for use on any sort of special passenger train? That is assuming, of course, that the need for such a string of equipment continues to exist.

Author:	wilkinsd [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
Scranton Yard wrote: The Sheriff's Office will be responsible for the sale but any money for the cleanup that can not be recovered from ITM will likely come out of the City budget. So it is the City who likely has the financial interest in liquidating the assets at the least cost/most gain and it is the City who will have an interest in avoiding potential costs of environmental assessment and abatement that may be necessary if an item is scrapped. The entity actually conducting the sale is irrelevant to the discussion of the potential financial benefits to the City of intact removal of an item from the property vs. scrapping in place. Who is doing what is entirely relevant to the discussion, as this is taking place in the framework of a legal process for eviction of ITM from city-owned land. Landlords (Noblesville) are prohibited from "self help" meaning they can't do it themselves. The Court placed the Hamilton County Sheriff in charge of securing the property and disposal after the 12th of July. If site cleanup goes above and beyond the sale (if any) of equipment, it's up to the City to get Court approval to recover the money. Believe it or not, this isn't a free-for-all. While the City might have input, in the end, the Court tasked a third party with the removal.

Author:	wilkinsd [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
Bobharbison wrote: What happens if they say this: "Clean up all that crap before they find a judge to repeal the order and allow them back in! I want it all out of there, today, now get moving!" Well, the Court Order, which nobody seems to be reading, by the way, clearly states it is not the city in charge of removal or cleanup. It's the Sheriff's Department. While the City may have input, it's up to the Sheriff's department to determine a removal/disposal plan. The Court in the Order actually tasked them with reporting to the Court on the process.

Author:	Scranton Yard [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
As Mr. May said, this will be a process. It will be at the speed of government. So identify your target, have a plan, and make your introductions so you understand who and what is involved as early in the process as possible. As I mentioned in a previous post, the Order states clearly that the premises are to be returned to "a clean and sightly manner" which will be "at the expense of ITM". JR May wrote: So, who might be the highest bidder for a large metal object and who also has the where with all to move it quickly? That would the scrap yards. Been there done that. The Order cites several pieces that will need environmental assessment and abatement prior to being scrapped on site. Without this requirement the scrapper's high bid may net the City the greatest gain but, if the City has to first pay for an assessment and abatement in order to sell to someone who will scrap it in place, a slightly lower offer from someone willing to cart it off intact may net the City more money and have the added benefit of eliminating the delay of getting an assessment and abatement performed. It can not hurt to discuss this with the officials involved.

Author:	Bobharbison [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
wilkinsd wrote: Bobharbison wrote: What happens if they say this: "Clean up all that crap before they find a judge to repeal the order and allow them back in! I want it all out of there, today, now get moving!" Well, the Court Order, which nobody seems to be reading, by the way, clearly states it is not the city in charge of removal or cleanup. It's the Sheriff's Department. While the City may have input, it's up to the Sheriff's department to determine a removal/disposal plan. The Court in the Order actually tasked them with reporting to the Court on the process. What happens if they ("they" referring to whomever is in charge of the disposition of the scrap/priceless railroad artifacts) says: "Clean up all that crap before they find a judge to repeal the order and allow them back in! I want it all out of there, today, now get moving!" There, feel better now? The question remains, what if they consider it like junk cars and work as fast as possible to haul it to the scrapyard? How do we know they won't pursue that option?

Author:	JR May [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
> While the City may have input, it's up to the Sheriff's department to determine a removal/disposal plan. And who does the sheriff's department report to? Its not a stand alone organization. It reports to a county or a town government of some sort, so again, rules and regs for disposition of confiscated items would apply. Yes, the order states that the sheriff is "directed to dispossess and remove ITM, and all other occupants and/or property...." But there is a reality here. This is not cleaning the possessions of a tenant rented home to the curb. Its locomotives, its big stuff. There is real value, not to mention costs to move the stuff. It might be helpful to google how the town handles sheriff sales of cars and bicycles and such. To me the real concern is vandalism. Who will protect the equipment if the ITM is tossed off the property? J.R.

Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org/forums/

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Author:	colfaxstation [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
Okay, so there's been a post of the roster. But which items are in danger and are there photos/ condition reports to evaluate whether the pieces are worth saving? All this bickering about who's clearing the site and so forth doesn't do a bit of good for organizations that might have interest.

Author:	Robert J [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:
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Author:	NS 3322 [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
It would be nice if a full roster could be posted; showing which items will be retained by ITM, are privately owned, have been sold, or scrapped. Also, does anyone know what the fate of Indianapolis Power & Light 0-4-0F will be? A few of these fireless engines have been scrapped in recent years.

Author:	nathansixchime [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
Robert J wrote: Aren't some pieces at ITM privately owned? Does the court order consider them to be ITM property or part of the ITM collection thereby falling under this eviction notice? Do hope said owners of the privately owned stuff like the restored operational Monon SW1 have a plan to move their stuff out. Re: privately owned equipment https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articl ... ville-park Quote: "Spokesperson Robert Herrington told IBJ there are several privately owned train cars on the property, and the city will work to ensure they get returned to their owners or safely moved to another site. The city will assess the property June 13 to determine what steps need to be taken to restore it, he said."

Author:	PMC [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
NS 3322 wrote: It would be nice if a full roster could be posted; showing which items will be retained by ITM, are privately owned, have been sold, or scrapped. Also, does anyone know what the fate of Indianapolis Power & Light 0-4-0F will be? A few of these fireless engines have been scrapped in recent years. I posted this earlier in the thread, I'm not sure if this is just ITM owned or everything on the property, but I suspect it is the former: https://www.itm.org/trains

Author:	Frank Hicks [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
PMC wrote: I posted this earlier in the thread, I'm not sure if this is just ITM owned or everything on the property, but I suspect it is the former: https://www.itm.org/trains At least some of the equipment on that list is privately owned. Of course, some of it is also scrapped now, too! And that roster is a trip... it's nice of them to so prominently mention ballast tractors and supercapacitors.

Author:	AlcoC420 [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
NS 3322 wrote: Also, does anyone know what the fate of Indianapolis Power & Light 0-4-0F will be? A few of these fireless engines have been scrapped in recent years. I recently saw a photo of the fireless steam locomotive. It was missing it's cab and jacketing. I would say it will be scrapped.

Author:	G. W. Laepple [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
It seems to me that the 14 Budd coaches, all of Santa Fe lineage, would be prime candidates for preservation. Where else, in this day and age, can a set of matching coaches be found for use on any sort of special passenger train? That is assuming, of course, that the need for such a string of equipment continues to exist.

Author:	MJV1988 [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
G. W. Laepple wrote: It seems to me that the 14 Budd coaches, all of Santa Fe lineage, would be prime candidates for preservation. Where else, in this day and age, can a set of matching coaches be found for use on any sort of special passenger train? That is assuming, of course, that the need for such a string of equipment continues to exist. I know of a great spot in NM behind a soon to be finished 4-8-4 to have them moved to.

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Author:	Brian Norden [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Indiana Transportation Museum Given until July 12 to Mov
G. W. Laepple wrote: It seems to me that the 14 Budd coaches, all of Santa Fe lineage, would be prime candidates for preservation. Where else, in this day and age, can a set of matching coaches be found for use on any sort of special passenger train? That is assuming, of course, that the need for such a string of equipment continues to exist. These are 1937 built cars-- the first Santa Fe large group of Budd chair cars. These were sold by Santa Fe along with the rest of the order and sample car #3070 to New Jersey for conversion to commuter cars. The seating capacity was nearly doubled in the conversion.