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 Post subject: K&T Railway 14 Civil Complaint Filed
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:42 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Robert J wrote:
IMO this particular thread's subject line is a form of "click baiting"..
Was I succesful in changing the title?


Last edited by JimBoylan on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Civil Complaint Against Steam Contractor Wasatch
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:53 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 127
JimBoylan wrote:
Robert J wrote:
IMO this particular thread's subject line is a form of "click baiting"..
Was I succesful in changing the title?

Nope. I think it is something only the mods can do.


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 Post subject: Civil Complaint filed concerning K&T locomotive 14
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:24 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1063
You can't just change the "Subject:" line immediately above the post window to change the topic line, as displayed, that is under discussion. Moreover, until you change the topic, you won't change the 'default subject line title that the software provides for replies.

The line that most needs changing is the topic, which was specified when the thread was created. My understanding is that an edit of the FIRST POST made in the thread is required to change that line as it appears in the 'directory' of threads.

Here is a discussion of how these kinds of edit are made in phpBB 3.0"

https://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/edu/phpbb/maintaining-forum/edit-post

Then there are all the individual topic posts already made, each of which may need to be edited as to 'Subject:' by the individual contributors now that the post has been made and submitted (and is considered the individual poster's intellectual property). We should decide on a 'correct' title (Jim Boylan has already provided his choice, 'Civil Complaint Against Steam Contractor Wasatch' which is technically accurate but a little loaded) which is reasonable as a topic for reasoned discourse. Whatever is decided by the community, it should be set (by Jim or moderation) as the 'default subject'; I have already edited my subject line to reflect Scranton Yard's reasonable suggestion.

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Last edited by Overmod on Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: K&T Railway 14 Civil Complaint Filed
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 400
Overmod wrote:
Then there are all the individual topic posts already made, each of which may need to be edited as to 'Subject:' by the individual contributors now that the post has been made and submitted (and is considered the individual poster's intellectual property). We should decide on a 'correct' title (Jim Boylan has already provided his choice, 'Civil Complaint Against Steam Contractor Wasatch' which is technically accurate but a little loaded) which is reasonable as a topic for reasoned discourse. Whatever is decided by the community, it should be set (by Jim or moderation) as the 'default subject', and I'll edit the subject line in my posts to reflect that.


My vote has been entered.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 176
Quote:
IMO this particular thread's subject line is a form of "click baiting"..

I agree. How about you just delete the entire thread, it's just going to go down the same road as before until it gets locked.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:14 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1063
Quote:
"How about you just delete the entire thread, it's just going to go down the same road as before until it gets locked."


Hasn't so far, and I suspect Rick is watching to start handing out the bans if any appreciable snarkiness toward John Rimmasch or his company is expressed in individual posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:25 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 663
Location: Bucks County, PA
Regardless, it should be interesting to see what happens when both sides of the story are finally fully divested.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2538
Seems like it's served it's purpose for now. We know there is likely a pending lawsuit, as they would gain nothing from saying they sued without actually suing.

They say the contractor didn't do the work properly.

He rebuts "they didn't pay me!"

They'll reply "We weren't happy with the work, so of course we didn't pay!"

Sounds like a typical contractor/client relationship gone bad to me. Until the facts are presented in court, not really much else to say.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:17 pm
Posts: 519
Location: Scranton, PA
I'm also curious if Wasatch could comment on several other disputed items:

- The Steamtown passenger car that is significantly behind schedule. (I, as a taxpayer, have a stake in this).
- The L&N 0-8-0 in Kentucky - https://www.thenewsjournal.net/train-re ... nts-money/

Was the issue with boiler repairs on the Ecuadorian locomotive and non payment settled?

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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 350
Let me give all you guys a little bit of "old man" advise...concerning working on Cabooses and Choo Choo trains. NEVER work on an "estimate" basis. Instead go for "cost plus labor".

Why? Well...Cabooses and Choo Choos are full of rusty and rotten parts...more then you can even imagine. So...you find more then you expect and because of the "estimate" you are stuck on a fixed budget. The customer expects it to be somewhat perfect...and you expect to be made whole. Both cannot happen...somebody will be sad.

Some may disagree...but I live the dream.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:14 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 10
Mr. Rimmasch does watch this page and others like it however, he reminds all of us that he did delete his personal account on RYPN on account of threads like this one and the miss-handling of these threads by certain (not all) of the moderators on this page.

Suffice to say, Mr. Rimmasch asked that we post the following;

[from an email from Mr. Rimmasch to the Social Media Team of WRC]

I have never cowered away from answering an honest question. There are questions presented above that deserve answers. To the best of my ability and subject to any pending legal action, this is the best I can provide at this time;

Corbin, KY: The enclosed article was a knee jerk reaction of a reporter that was present at a Board meeting where we had asked for additional funding based on additions to the scope of work. Some of the increase was granted, the scope was downsized on other items. The project finished for the requested amount of money and as we speak, the City of Corbin is one of our best references on project performance. Last week Corbin provided WRC two very positive references and two weeks ago, we did a few minor additions to the project, free of charge. Great relationship between the two parties.

CNJ 1021: This project is behind time wise. It has some very critical items that have been excluded from the scope of work that we are working on with the NPS as we speak. Despite the delays in clarification on the scope of work, we continue to work on the car as much as we can pending the scope clarifications.

Ecuadorian Steam: No, the payment issues between the parties were never resolved. WRC scrapped the boiler for about $550.00 and we had a massive pizza party. Though we had a strong case, Ecuador does not recognize international law and as such, any judgment on our side would not have been enforceable. We walked away from the case.

WRC Contracts: Our contracts are as "iron clad" as they can be. Our contract template, about 11-15 pages was written by a team of lawyers who, have litigated and won a number of "service provider" cases. I would remind all those who care that WRC has a "zero loss run record." That means, we have never litigated a case (kept any/all disputes out of court) and we have lost no cases nor do we have any pay outs on any case/project. We bond and protect every project and we insure our projects (something not many, if any other contractors in our industry do.). The fact that we bond our projects makes us more of a target for litigation. Some customers, seeing that we have insurance, are actually going after some kind of "insurance" claim, rather than any form of tangible damage claim. So far, we have not lost any dispute. We have never had to pay out on a performance bond either.

In addition, we are a growing company. Often, as you grow, you become a target. Our contracts are written in such a way that all of our projects are "time and materials, cost plus" projects. We do project and offer a "cost magnitude projection" but we have very strong language in our contracts that excludes any notion of guaranteed pricing. Since I am being transparent in this message, we have fought three such disputes in the past year. 100% total full paid victories for WRC, including repayment of legal fees. Our contracts are very well written. Lastly, our contracts include our fees and pricing and they also exclude very particular items.

Why the post remains and why I have not fought the post;

To be very honest, posts like this actually support the position of WRC. We use and will continue to use forums like this and others to defend ourselves and our position. Those who post messages like this and or those who purposely strive to deface or defame WRC are quickly called out in disputes and are quickly referred to as "sour grapes." Once you are defined as a "sour grape," you can impinge your ability to argue in an appropriate manner. Now, there is a certain Esquire on this page that will disagree with me however, I would remind him that he has lost far more cases than I and my lawyers have ever lost.

So, have at me and my company. Enjoy being the ones who say "na na na na look what I found." It doesn't hurt me or the cause. In conclusion; The topic IS contrary to the rules of the page. It has nothing to do with preservation or a preservation topic. It is a business matter to be resolved between two parties. It has everything to do with defaming an industry contractor and was posted for that very reason and frankly, it has no place on the page, but so be it. Like I said, it has no impact on me or my company.

To date, we have received no notice of a compliant filed against WRC.

Again, I left the page over a year ago because some (not all) moderators on this page lack morals and ethics when it comes to proper handling of posts. We have a company account so we can answer questions like these.

John E. Rimmasch

Posted by the Social Media Team of WRC

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Cheyenne, Wyoming


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 362
Location: Orrville, OH
WRC: Thanks for the clarifications.

Admin: The topic title is a bit inflammatory. As I understand pHpBB, the topic title can be edited in the first post (the OP may be able to do that also) however, each individual post subject would have to be edited.

IMHO, the topic is fine as long as it remains civil and professional. You never know when you might learn something useful about the contracting side of preservation.

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Eric Schlentner
ORHS Car Knocker & Gandy Dancer
http://www.orrvillerailroad.com


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:45 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1448
Location: Strasburg, PA
Wasatch RR Cont wrote:
WRC Contracts: Our contracts are as "iron clad" as they can be. Our contract template, about 11-15 pages was written by a team of lawyers who, have litigated and won a number of "service provider" cases.

Since I am being transparent in this message, we have fought three such disputes in the past year. 100% total full paid victories for WRC, including repayment of legal fees. Our contracts are very well written.

Geez John, guess I’m not doing it right. Our basic contract is about two pages long, written by non-lawyers, though 95% of our jobs are negotiated and completed with no contract at all, just an email conversation.

Three disputes in the last year? Legal fees? Holy smokes! Since I have been in charge of contract work here (circa 2000), we have never been stiffed for a bill of any size, and I have never spoken to a lawyer or “fought a dispute”. There have been tardy payments, but most times an email reminder or two results in payment.

What's your secret?

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 10
From the Social Media Team of WRC, Mr. Rimmasch has sent is the following;

Kelly,

I think it is important to remember that WRC is NOT just a restoration facility. We also own an AAR Certified Freight Car Repair facility (that focuses on Tank Car repairs, painting and lining of food grade freight cars and major freight car rebuilds) as well as a dedicated field operations portion of our business. Our business is three distinct business models. Restoration is quickly becoming the smallest of the three models. In fact, we are excited to mention that we may have won a contract to actually build some freight cars.

http://www.wrrc.us/about-wasatch-railcar-repair/

That said, we invoice or generate invoices at a rate of between 20-50 invoices per week. Our customers range from Class I RR's to private customers to other businesses in-between. With that in mind, our business model is not the same as the "Burgs" in that a lot of customers are not necessarily "established relationships." They are more strictly people in offices doing work who, without being critical, do not know much about what is really happening in the field or in the shop. In addition, my company faces the issue of multiple billing platforms to be used. For example, some of the work we do is billed in Railinc, the national network for railcar billing. This system has it's own issues as customers are free (and really encouraged) to question invoices and billing practices. Thus, we get customers, like Trinity Tank Car for example, that will dispute a set of invoices on a quarterly basis and we have to defend the invoice and the work. Really for us, invoice dispute is part of being in the class I industry and is just..."a way of life."

In all, for the size of Wasatch as it is today, we have a VERY, VERY low loss rate per year. For a company my size, you would expect a loss rate of 7-15% or even more. The WRC loss rate (invoices that went unpaid in 2017, against our total income for the year) was less than .08%. Nothing. It is so minuscule.

The depth of our contracts is more a result of our bigger relationships and standards that have to be upheld. For example, the contract for BNSF is about 22 pages long and, if our contract does not match in part to theirs, they will not do business with us (which BNSF doesn't do business with us anyway, but it is a good example and we do have a contract in place with them even though they do not use it). Our contracts and contract writing are more based on industry standards than anything else. In addition, WRC has about 5 active people who are currently allowed to bid jobs and execute contracts. Unlike others, I simply am not involved in EVERY contract WRC writes or engages in. I can not be, there are too many now. We have a system in place where our contracts are reviewed by two executives BEFORE they get executed, but that does not mean that I saw them personally. I know of a number of contracts this week that will go out without my review. I am on personal vacation answering questions on RYPN. ;-)

Civility:

Tell all of the people who do not read notes, nor who have the capacity to even understand them to remain civil. The internet has become more of a place to let your voice be heard, than it is a place to listen and understand.

Not to worry, this thread will spiral out of control and will end up locked. Why? Because people will not read it, they will only see it as a place to let their fingers run wild and say whatever they want. At one time this was the BEST page on the net......no longer that way. Degraded past the low level of Chaski in some many ways. IMHO (what ever that means).

John E. Rimmasch
Wasatch Family of Businesses

(Sorry for any mistakes, headed to a museum with the family, criticize me later.)

Posted by the Social Media Team of WRC

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Wasatch Railroad Contractors
Cheyenne, Wyoming


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 Post subject: Re: Oh Look a Hand Grenade *throws*
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm
Posts: 175
To all of you at WRC: Thanks. The internet can be a rough place anymore, and railroading always has been a rough business. Know that I for one appreciate your hard work.


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