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 Post subject: A Modest Proposal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 1999 9:02 pm 

Gentle People,<p>Last Friday, I worked my way down to the string on the Troop Sleeper/Kitchen cars, built and operated by Pullman during World War II and, I believe, Korea. That day, I also happened to see some other things in entirely unrelated searches that all came together while driving out to the East Broad Top on Saturday.<p>RyPN Interchange is populated by people who get things done in railway preservation. So, I put the following to you for discussion.<p>Observation 1: Never intended to be a thorough survey, nevertheless, the string referred to 7, maybe 8, troop sleeper/kitchen cars. Seems me that is reason to believe that a comprehensive search could turn up enough of these rugged cars to make an authentic train. There also are restored, heavy weight Pullman cars that would be authentic in such a train and would boost capacity.<p>Observation 2: There are restored main line steam locomotives of perfect vintage in every region of the contiguous United States, just looking for a chance to run.<p>Observation 3: Go big or stay home. A creative, large scope, living rail history project would get leverage to help persuade (no guarantees) skeptical railroads if it reached out to grab significant stakeholders BEYOND the rail preservation community (for example by celebrating the contribution and spotlighting needs of a very large segment of the general population in a positive, highly emotive way).<p>Observation 4: World War II veterans are aging rapidly. According to the VA, by 2000, three in every five U.S. males over age 65 will be veterans. I've seen different figures for mortaility but, taking the more conservative one, 1,500 World War II veterans die each month (and the scope and complexity of the care needs of all the survivors are moving to their peak). It is possible to see - not too far in the future - the window closing on the opportunity to extend thanks to these veterans while they still are mentally alert and physically able enough to accept and enjoy the gesture. If you wonder whether thanks needs to be said again, I call to your attention a Medal of Honor recipient who will wake up screaming tomorrow morning at 3:00 a.m., as he has every morning for 55 years, because that was the time the enemy always attacked. You and I know what we will be doing at 3:00 a.m., sleeping secure and free. <p>IDEA: Why not restore and assemble a complete, authentic troop train? Why not take it all over the United States behind main lin steam appropriate to each region of operation? World War II (and Korean?) veterans ride free.<p>There are many, many related questions and issues to be discussed. Quickly to start a discussion, a project-specific nonprofit could be formed for the duration of the project only. The scale of the effort probably is like Operation Sail, bigger than RailFair, but not as big as American Freedom Train. Nationwide scope allows tapping all of our community's resources, which are a lot more capable and experienced than 23 years ago at the time of AFT. Not insignificantly, we have the Internet. There indeed are non-traditional (for us) potential sponsors with deep pockets. Example 1: any company that does major business with the Pentagon (I work for one). Business communities that see veterans and their families as part of their core market, like health care providers and insurance companies (maybe a way to skin THAT cat). A real grabber of an event that goes to all their regions in the millennium year might move the railroads to see a major way to make a statement about their contribution to how we all got here as a nation. Late summer 2000 is awfully close but, other big projects have been pulled off successfully on a short fuse, helped by the audacity of their vision (I think Operation Sail was an example). 2000 is the millennium, 55th anniversary of the end of World War II, and 50th anniversary of the start of the Korean War.<p>Lastly, just imagine the train. Big steam, the cars, many of the passengers all are The Real Thing - a simple phrase that preservationists will fall on their swords for. Departing and arriving at cities, former garrison towns, and ports across the nation to "that music." Via some of the most famous stretches of railroad in the country. What could be more evocative?<p>Well?<p> Phil Padgett<br>



ebt4evr@aol.com


  
 
 Post subject: Pullman Troop Sleeper 9826
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 1999 10:07 pm 

Pullman Troop Sleeper 9826 is located at the Pioneer RR Museum in Temple Texas. One potential car for the Troop Train. Wonder if the Veterans of Foreign Wars (http://www.vfw.org/home.shtml) would br interested?



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hkading@rypn.org


  
 
 Post subject: Similar car in The Dalles,OR
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 1999 2:47 am 

I think the old car my father always called an 'Army Boxcar' may be one of these cars.It is off the UP line next to a ball field in The Dalles,OR..I am not sure of the condition,but it could be a candidate for such a train...<br>



amraam120c@hotmail.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Similar car in The Dalles,OR
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 1999 10:04 am 

I hate to slam the brakes on a lovely idea, but you may have one hard fact to deal with: the troop sleepers' Allied Full-Cuchion trucks track so poorly and are so derailment-prone that I beleive they have been banned in interchange service by the AAR. They are wicked, awful things.<br>I am not 100% certain about the official ban, but I have a pretty strong memory of this being told to me with some authority when I was on the crew which began restoration of the B&O Museum's troop sleeper. <p>Even if I'm not 100% right on there being a formal ban, it's an absolute certainty that the railroads view these trucks with deep, deep, disfavor. You are not going to get permission to operate a train of them at track speed.<p>If it turns out the cars can still move in interchange, a more modest proposal might be to gather them together at some highly visible forum (Steamtown is a natural) for a static display train. The 50th anniversary of "the forgotten war" is upon us: anyone for a Korea troop train display?<br>



eledbetter@rypn.org


  
 
 Post subject: More Troop Sleeper Musings
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 1999 10:41 am 

A second issue which has to be tackled forthrightly: while former troop sleepers and kitchen cars are ubiquitous, troop sleeprs restored to their authentic original configuration are scarce as hen's teeth.<p>Hume's photo link makes the point: that's really a troop sleeper modified into a baggage/express car, and it shouldn't really be wearing that green Pullman livery at all. The same goes for the B&O Museum's troop sleeper car: it was a source of great frustration to me that we repainted it into Pullman green when it still had half its windows blanked from MOW service on the Western Maryland. This is a classic example of a restoration which undid the artifact's value as a MOW car, without adding comparable value by properly backdating it as a troop sleeper. As it stands, it's neither fish nor fowl.<p>The point of all this rambling being, assembling a train which will pass historical and restoration muster may be much harder than it seems.<br>



eledbetter@rypn.org


  
 
 Post subject: Are truck tradeouts feasible?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 1999 7:40 pm 

I second the motion that any such operating train would have to be operated with trucks other than the as-built trucks. <br>Other troop sleepers I know of lurk on the Walkersville Southern (one), Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum collection (two?), Gaithersburg Md. (one), and maybe elsewhere in Md.<br>



LNER4472@gateway.net


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Are truck tradeouts feasible?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 1999 10:01 pm 

The Museum of Transportation in St. Louis also has a troop sleeper, gotten from the UP. It was MKT #100262, earlier 102401 and X2401, but we don't know its original troop sleeper number (can anyone help us here). It was from the second batch, built in 1946. These have short ladders at the side entrances instead of the step wells as on the first batch of cars. It was a work train office on the MKT, and several windows are plated over, the others barred, and two "swamp cooler" units to cool it are mounted on the roof. Only the toilet areas remain from the original interior. But it has its original Allied Full Cushion trucks, which is rather rare. One point not fully mentioned is that nearly all the cars will have friction bearings, making another barrier to overcome as railroads can refuse to handle any cars with these bearings. The concept under discussion here is rather breathtaking in its scope, but a good one to talk about. I suspect getting a train together might require one entity to acquire the cars and place them in roadworthy order, as I can just imagine the complications of multiple groups going their own way on this.<br>



rdgoldfede@aol.com


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Are truck tradeouts feasible?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 1999 12:53 am 

Hypothetically speaking, if the funds can be raised, how feasible would it be to temporarily slip roller bearing trucks under them? Additionally, if all else fails, one could strap them down to some flats and have a steamer or a diesel pull them around.<p>Gerry K.<br>



hottshot65@aol.com


  
 
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