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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:49 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Northern Illinois
I certainly agree with all of the sentiment above. Really, it should be a win-win situation for both parties involved. It seems NIFM especially played their cards right; being located in the nations largest railway museum will expose them to crowds they would not see as a standalone museum.

In hindsight, it is not too surprising that NIFM has chosen this as their new home. They have evidently built a good relationship with IRM. Not only have they had a strong presence at Vintage Transport Expos, but at IRM's new "Daniel Tiger" event this year, they had a firetruck or two on display.

A good relationship has to be maintained, of course, but I don't see that being a problem. Not only will separate organizations eliminate infighting, but the volunteers I talked to seemed genuinely super friendly. Who knows, maybe the fire truck preservation community doesn't have problems with antisocial foamers like we do...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:36 am 

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Last edited by Robert J on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Among railroad enthusiasts there are strong sub-factions with interests in everything from fire equipment to steam boats, lake freighters, and theater organs. Even some kinds of antique aircraft (DC-3's are a special interest of many) are popular. Since IRM is building a "Main St.", perhaps a theater with a Wurlitzer pipe organ would be in order. The idea of combining several smaller related collections on one site has some appeal, and is certainly worth pursuing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:18 am 

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
That would be beneficial to the museum. In our region, we probably would not do something like that because of competition-Tempe has the Hall of Flame Museum which is the world's largest collection of fire apparatus and memorabilia. They have over a hundred pieces of apparatus on display and thousands of smaller artifacts.

Some years ago I went up with a group of members from our museum and we got the cook's tour of the place-the off limits storage facility and secure storage area were literally filled to the brim with fire apparatus and memorabilia gold. I was extremely impressed by their organization and volunteers. Every motorized piece is maintained in operating condition and it was cool having the volunteer (a retired fire chief) tell us stories about one of the engines that came from the department he served.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:39 pm
Posts: 7
Building a firehouse at IRM is still mentioned in the Fire Museum's current year newsletters.

https://www.nifm.net/newsletter.php


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Chicago USA
Make some of the fire apparatus operational and with a fire station right on the grounds maybe the county will let them open the newer barns to the public.

Only half joking.

Come to think of it, the new firehouse will need to be sprinklered to be open to the public, yes?


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:12 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
filmteknik wrote:
Make some of the fire apparatus operational and with a fire station right on the grounds maybe the county will let them open the newer barns to the public.

Only half joking.

Come to think of it, the new firehouse will need to be sprinklered to be open to the public, yes?


That or acquire a newer piece of apparatus, maintain it to keep it certified and train a sufficient number of staff/volunteers to operate it. You might have to create a private fire department, but an organization the size of IRM could manage that. Many railroads maintained their own private fire departments.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:43 am 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 140
This is a great opportunity for both groups if they can work out the details. I see the main street offering more museums opportunities to move in and expand the attraction to appeal to more people. Think of a technology museum moving into the 'local machine shop' on the main street, car museum moving into a replica vintage warehouse/gas station/repair shop, or a radio/networking museum building a replica 50s vintage tv station near main street and moving in as a couple possibilities. Keeping the idea open while designing Main Street, the Roundhouse, and backshop can serve to attract any number of museums to partner with the IRM and make it a 1 of a kind national stop. Perhaps the IRM could reach out to various museums and groups and offer space for them to build a integrated building to fit the main street theme in exchange they pay and build for their piece of the project?


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:39 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
Alan Walker wrote:
filmteknik wrote:
Make some of the fire apparatus operational and with a fire station right on the grounds maybe the county will let them open the newer barns to the public.

Only half joking.

Come to think of it, the new firehouse will need to be sprinklered to be open to the public, yes?


That or acquire a newer piece of apparatus, maintain it to keep it certified and train a sufficient number of staff/volunteers to operate it. You might have to create a private fire department, but an organization the size of IRM could manage that. Many railroads maintained their own private fire departments.



Not so fast. Forming your own fire department isn’t as easy as just buying a fire engine and showing people how to squirt water. I’ve been a professional firefighter for twelve years now and a volunteer for eight years prior to that. The fire service has changed a lot over the years. Volunteer departments all over the country suffer from low recruitment and retention of members. This is due to several factors. Fewer volunteers work in the towns they serve and many employers won’t allow them to leave work to respond as they did in the past. Family and personal time must be sacrificed so members can not only respond to calls, but attend work details and drills to fulfill the ever growing training and education requirements. Fewer young people are interested in giving up that time. Apparatus and equipment must be maintained, tested, and even retired according to standards. I don’t know if IRM has enough funds, people, and resources to staff and equip their own legitimate fire department. If they do, great. I don’t know of any museums that could or would want to do such a thing. There’s a big difference between a class 1 railroad company having their own fire department and a railroad museum. Modern fire protection goes much farther than “put the wet stuff on the red stuff”.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11473
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
There used to be numerous large facilities with their own fire departments in places where I have lived, such as a state mental institution, an Army Depot/base, a large VA Hospital grounds, and more. All, to my knowledge, have phased out their fire departments and sold off their equipment--in some cases because of the downsizing/eventual closure of the site, but also because of the increasingly specialized needs of firefighting. We have far fewer fires being set by smoking, stray cigarettes, overheating stoves/light bulbs and short-circuiting 110-volt fixtures (in a day when half the stuff in the house charges on USB voltage!), but what we do see often involves burning plastics, hazmat, and more.

In the latter days of the "fire department" of the Selinsgrove (Pa.) State School and Hospital (later the Selinsgrove Center, waiting for its last occupants to die), the single fire truck was used solely as a water pumper or to test fire suppression systems, or once to hose down a small grass fire. Never once, as far as I know, was it ever used at a real structural fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Locally, I know that the company that operates Old Tucson Studios maintained a small, private fire department for some years not long ago. They did that because of the long response time and a major arson that occurred about fifteen years ago. It would take an engine from the City FD probably fifteen to twenty minutes at minimum to get there, due to the remote location of the studio and the fact that the shorter route goes through a mountain pass that is impassible to any apparatus larger than a brush truck. I don't know if they still do that.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
Is it necessary for IRM to have their own fire department? What is the response time of the local department? Are there water supply or access issues?

The military installations, state mental health institutions, and VA hospitals previously mentioned all have something in common, government funding. Government departments are staffed by paid professional firefighters.

A fire museum would be a nice addition to IRM. I’d like to see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:05 am
Posts: 144
Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
Mount Royal wrote:
Is it necessary for IRM to have their own fire department?


I truly agree with you is it necessary i think no

Quote:
A fire museum would be a nice addition to IRM. I’d like to see it.


We don't have any update since year i hope we have some news soon

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David Dion


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Museum to move to Illinois Railway Museum
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:35 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 266
IRM had, and to the best of my knowledge still has, a policy against allowing the storage of privately owned locomotives and rolling stock at the museum. As it was explained to me many years ago, one of the major justifications behind this is that it prevented the museum from having to take action against owners that weren't able to take care of their rolling stock. Having rolling stock deteriorate and letting storage fees pile-up to unrecoverable amounts weren't good for anyone -neither were adverse possession disputes or scrapping. Over IRM's long history there have been a few exceptions -- the equipment that that equipment may have come into the museum's ownership by now. (IC sleeper "King Cotton" comes to mind)

With this background in mind, I struggle to see why the IRM board would allow another organization to erect a building and operate on museum grounds. With rolling stock, there is a potential resolve disputes by moving the equipment off the property, which isn't as easily done with a building. Will the fire museum expect a division of gate revenues? What if the fire museum and IRM come to a different understanding of gate revenue divisions in the future -- those wouldn't be comfortable to resolve.

As alternative, what I suggest is that the fire museum look for a location near downtown Union. The McHenry County Museum https://mchenrycountyhistory.org/planning-your-visit already has a general local history museum with collections that align well with the rural communities that most of the fire museum's collection has come from. It is also close enough that visitors so inclined could visit both in a day.


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