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 Post subject: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 202
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Does anyone have a steam ejector air conditioning unit used by the AT&SF in their passenger cars that would be available? Thanks, Matt Janssen -

mjanssen@vaporlocomotive.com
208-304-3454


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 235
In 2001 or 2002 a complete Milw steam ejector AC unit was scrapped by the Frisco 1522 gang as they restored one of their crew cars.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1235
Location: Chicago USA
That's unfortunate. Does anyone have one running?


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:47 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 555
A lot of people seem to worry about loosing all of a model of locomotive, even when that model is almost identical to other models. But few seem to want to preserve some of the car equipment. Are there any working steam ejector units out there? Any working axle driven generator DC air conditioned cars left? Any of them restored, on display, in original working configuration?


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:49 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2150
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Also, wouldn’t it be interesting to demonstrate an ice cooling coach?

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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:58 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1109
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I grew up around passenger trains that used steam from Diesel locomotives equipped with steam generators, and Spicer drive axle generators. The original consist for the Cuyahoga Valley Line was such a train. I believe the few cars that MRPS has left are still so equipped, and were never converted to HEP. It's still common in Europe to find steam-heated excursion trains, and even steam locomotives with extra turbo generators to provide electricity for lighting. Of course Northern Europe is generally a little cooler, and they still allow open windows on excursions, so the need for powerful air-conditioning in coaches is not as great. I miss the atmosphere of being in a station with steam wafting from train lines and ground connections, and watching the axle generators work as a train arrives or leaves the station. The downside of Spicer drives is that they didn't generate power at the low speeds most excurions operate at. I would definitely encourage any group that still has original equipment to work to preserve it. I know modern HEP or generator systems are so much easier to work with, but the old way is also the historic way. Being totally original does take away options as to where and how equipment is operated, as it would not be Amtrak compatible, and that is an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:36 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2150
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
We are operating in metro Copenhagen, on mainlines where the running speed is 120 km/hour or less, open window, open platform, coach stock with a mix of steam heat, wood stove heat, axle generator, and kerosene lamps.

When the lines are upgraded to higher speeds, this will end, because the air pressure shock of passing trains will be unsafe for windows and passengers. But we have lower speed local lines where this equipment can still be used.

It is, of course, quite an educational experience.

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:45 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 555
At the Arkansas Railroad Museum we have a "moderately operational" Passenger coach, GN1121. It has most of what I assume is the original Spicer Drive and DC HVAC equipment. Even has a couple of the DC jumpers. Apparently the axle generator has a 208v 3 phase motor built in and it has inlets to allow it to be connected to wayside AC or DC power. When it was on excursion behind 819, the driveshaft was removed and a transformer added to feed the 208 vac motor and it was run off of the 480vac HEP power, running the DC equipment. A standard A/C compressor/condensor unit was hung on to convert it, but that was never hooked up. So that's a long way to go to say it's more original then some, and at least as of 17 or so years ago, it was basically operational. If I have any say about it, I will never allow it to be converted and will have the 'new' A/C pack removed. One issue anyone using this stuff will run into is that the equipment is now 70+ years old and will only get harder to find. Also I assume it uses R12 or R22 freon, which are now basically obsolete.


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 376
I too am a fan of trying to retain the original systems if it is reasonably practical to do so. I have a former AT&SF bar lounge dorm with intact steam ejector AC system that I would like to get operational one day just for the fun of it. The same for the steam heat on that car. The biggest challenge is coming up with a source of steam to operate those systems. Other than that, steam ejector AC is really a very simple system. And, water is the refrigerant so no Freon to deal with.

The only Amtrak Certified PV with original DC electrical system I know of is the ex-UP National Forum. They run the genemotor from 220V 3 phase off of 480 to 240 transformers that spin the genemotor as if it is on stand-by power. The problem with that is the genemotor never gets up to the same full speed it would if powered as-designed by the Spicer drive. Amtrak doesn't allow Spicer drives anymore, so they have to be removed. Nonetheless, the car seems to operate satisfactorily.

The Monticello RR museum still regularly uses steam heat in the winter time since they have a former CN/VIA Rail steam generator car. But they don't have any steam ejector AC cars that I know of.


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 624
Where would the Santa Fe steam injector air conditioning unit be located? Was it used on all of their passenger cars with AC up until the advent of HEP, and would it have been left behind on camp cars? I became a railfan around Santa Fe camp cars (many former passenger cars, though some box cars), and occasionally hear of one being scrapped.


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5516
Location: southeastern USA
Looks like a "NO", Matt...… but a lot of information that doesn't help you out. Perhaps AARPCO might be more useful.

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 376
There's a few cars I know of out west that may be good donors of a Carrier-Safety steam ejector AC unit. I will keep your request in mind during the next 6 months or so. Be prepared to react quickly if you really want one of these units as once they are available you will have to show up with a trailer and haul it away or they will end up going to a scrapper.


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 202
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Topfuel,

No problem - Thank you.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1235
Location: Chicago USA
What about Waukesha Ice Engines? Any operational? I think IRM was trying to get one going under their MILW dynomometer car but do not know the status.

I wish they would find a couple of cars equipped with one of the obsolete systems and get them going for demonstration trains. Anything axle-driven is not practical but a Waukesha or steam ejector perhaps. Or Ice-Activated? Could a couple of consumer chest freezers with suitable forms for some giant blocks of ice create enough ice over the course of a week to cool a car for an afternoon of service?


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 Post subject: Re: Sante Fe Steam Ejector Air Conditioning
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2150
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
filmteknik wrote:
What about Waukesha Ice Engines? Any operational? I think IRM was trying to get one going under their MILW dynomometer car but do not know the status.

I wish they would find a couple of cars equipped with one of the obsolete systems and get them going for demonstration trains. Anything axle-driven is not practical but a Waukesha or steam ejector perhaps. Or Ice-Activated? Could a couple of consumer chest freezers with suitable forms for some giant blocks of ice create enough ice over the course of a week to cool a car for an afternoon of service?



Don’t local ice vendors still sell block ice?

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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