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 Post subject: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:57 am
Posts: 76
Location: DC Metro Area
Just came across this. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/09/11/d ... e-lawsuit/


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:09 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 625
This has been posted for a day on the railfan board.
Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:24 am 

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 91
I wonder what are the likely outcomes of this case? Surely the d&s had preventative measures in place, and not running trains during a drought would mean months to years without steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:31 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2160
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Does anybody have a complete list or history of fire events around the D&S, preferably going back many decades?

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Steven Harrod
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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:37 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi
Yes, it is unfortunate what happen out in Colorado because of the fire, some say it was started by the railroad, or by some camper. As for who is the blame, that we will never find out?
If the Citizens, of Durango, stop the trains from running they will be hurting themselves, by the amount of money that the railroad brings into the city from the tourist trade. If the railroad was to stop running during the tourist season, the city of Durango would feel the effects.
From the Hotels, the food business, Gas, shop owners, etc,
I don't know how this is going to play out, but go ahead stop the trains, and the city will feel the effects.


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 509
Current problem with the suit is that cause has not been identified, and IIRC durring the fire the story was that the center of the fire was a few hundred feet away from the tracks. Was it a windy day?

I know Standard operating procedures for the D&S is that all trains during this season are followed by a speeder with a ~400 gal tank of water and a pumper, on the off chance of a spark leaving the stack. Add to that all the active locomotives have spark arrester systems installed on the stack that dampen the exhaust by spraying water into the stack (that is why the top of the stack has that ring of pipe) in addition to screens inside the stack.

It will be interesting to see how the chips will fall, hopefully there will only be a limited supply of Buffalo Chips.


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2160
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Add to that all the active locomotives have spark arrester systems installed on the stack that dampen the exhaust by spraying water into the stack (that is why the top of the stack has that ring of pipe) in addition to screens inside the stack.


That is interesting and if anyone has more information to post I would enjoy reading it.

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2160
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Just remember that if you had a financial loss due to the fire, your only real compensation, other than insurance, is to sue a liable party. There is not some other fund you can seek help from without using the legal system.

So when they say they like the train, but they need the money, I think they are truthful.

It is interesting the news story posted lots of pictures of that fellow waving at the train.

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 468
Location: Northern Illinois
I found it quite interesting that the lawsuit quoted revenue losses in Durango and the immediate area between 2017 to 2018 from the effects of the fire cancellations. What do the people expect will happen to revenue if the railroad is shutdown by their legal actions or service is curtailed resulting in fewer trains? Obviously the D&S is attempting to reduce fire possibilities during drought periods by ordering two diesels and converting K37 493 to burn oil. I hope a common ground can be found that will allow the railroad to continue to operate steam locomotives, greatly reduce fire possibilities and allow Durango to continue to prosper as a city.

Don C.


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 87
As a public adjuster licensed in multiple States, I can tell you that most all the house fires related to this situation would have resulted in what the insurance companies classify as a large loss. Insurance companies are extremely Vigilant in their pursuit of subrogation on large loss claims. It is a very likely that there will be litigation involved with each covered loss related to this event once a liable party is determined. That is not even taking into account any municipal or uninsured or self insured losses that may have occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:26 am
Posts: 45
wrg113 wrote:
As a public adjuster licensed in multiple States, I can tell you that most all the house fires related to this situation would have resulted in what the insurance companies classify as a large loss.


From the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum
" To my knowledge, no homes or businesses burned in the 416 fire"

Do you have knowledge there were any house or business fires?

According to a Durango area resident on NGDF:
a restaurant that is suing "suffered nothing but a few days of lost business"


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:32 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3419
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
The story as it appeared in Durango. . .of note is that most of the comments are supportive of the railroad, but one or two apparently hate it.

https://durangoherald.com/articles/240659


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:47 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1360
When the Forest Service puts Stage 2 fire restrictions into effect, what is the understanding between them and the D&S about what is expected of the railroad with their locomotive operations?


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 790
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Well, the attorney for plaintiffs clearly states that plaintiffs understand the value of the historic train operations and clearly state that they have no desire to put the railroad out of business. That stated, the loss of income and property gives them legal basis to sue to recover damages.

My take? Given the history of recent wildfires, it is time for certain railroads-specifically the D&S and C&TS to strongly consider converting to fuel oil. Fuel oil is not entirely risk free, but it does not cause the throwing of sparks. This may also affect the ability of the D&S to maintain insurance if their insurer views the use of coal as a risk increasing factor. It's also possible that conversion to oil burning might be a condition of any potential settlement.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Residents Sue D&S Over Fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 202
I think that's what will ultimately happen at D&S. The first locomotive will be a bit of a test, and then slowly over time future rebuilds will convert the fleet to oil. Having the first oil fired engine and a couple of "green" diesels will show they are doing something without having to rebuild every single steam locomotive immediately (which would be very costly).

Obviously a bit of history is lost with the oil conversion.. the locomotives have been relatively unchanged all this time, which along with the historic coaches and the historic route makes Durango a very special place. But the oil conversion will take very little away from the end experience so that's a better outcome than swapping to diesel 100%.


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