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White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42788		 Page 5 of 6
Author:  R.L.Kennedy [ Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
What is missing? MG?
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
Several items removed for the highway haul. The snow plow. The section of the hood with the dynamic braking grids and blower. Also air shutter box on the rear of the roof.
Author:  PMC [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
Two of the new units were tested (apparently successfully) yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/WhitePassRailr ... 1024471315 Only relevant here because they are replacing 50+ year old Alcos and could potentially replace steam on certain other 3' lines.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PMC wrote:
Only relevant here because they are replacing 50+ year old Alcos and could potentially replace steam on certain other 3' lines.
The Durango & Silverton has announced that the primary use of the its diesels will be for maintenance of way use. The former steel-mill diesels will probably be replaced.

It is expected that during high fire danger the diesels will be used instead of the coal fired steamers. The D&S has converted one of its coal burners to oil and has another underway -- these and more conversions to come will reduce the possibility of hot cinders, etc. starting line side fires.

It would not be surprising that certain off-season and/or short-turn trains will be hauled by the diesels.
Author:  R.L.Kennedy [ Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
Green and yellow is an excellent paint scheme. The black and red is crap!
Author:  PMC [ Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
D&S is receiving a new unit tonight/ tomorrow, it apparently is a former Miami Tri-Rail unit, itself a former GP40 rebuilt by Morrison Knudson with an F45-like new cab. I still don't know who the builder is, someone south of TN is all I know. This unit had its frame shortened and a hood off of an ex-UP unit modified, and uses a Caterpillar engine.

IMHO, I'll bet the D&S will be as happy with high-RPM truck engines in railroad service as all the other Caterpillar-repowered customers have been, i.e. not at all.

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Author:  Meghan [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42296&p=303890#p303890
I still say it looks like one of the Mattel Hot Wheels engines...
Author:  daylight4449 [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
So I'm not going to even pretend to understand, but what's the issue with the high-speed Caterpillar diesels? Is it just an issue of the computers that likely follow all of the new designs of engines, or is it something else?
Author:  PMC [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
daylight4449 wrote:
So I'm not going to even pretend to understand, but what's the issue with the high-speed Caterpillar diesels? Is it just an issue of the computers that likely follow all of the new designs of engines, or is it something else?

I am only repeating what I have heard. I actually am from Peoria IL originally, the home of Caterpillar, and when I lived there in the 1980s I heard about Cat's attempt to get into the locomotive business and was excited by it (being a young fan anything new is exciting). EMD and GE engines' maximum RPM is 900, whereas a truck engine maximum RPM is around 1500. Besides the fact that an engine turning that fast wears out faster, it causes vibrations that sort of shake a unit to pieces. There is a reason why 65+ year old GP-9s are still in regular service, but you very rarely see a truck from before 1980 on the road. Last but not least, Caterpillar sells their engines roughly at cost, and makes up for it by charging outrageous prices for parts. Over twenty years ago I drove a truck for a person who years before had a Ford semi with a Caterpillar engine in it and he wouldn't stop ranting about how much he hated Caterpillar engines because of the cost of parts (an engine head in his case). Caterpillar has stopped selling their truck engines to Freightliner, International etc. and now you can only get them in a Caterpillar-sold heavy industrial truck.

Caterpillar pushed to put its smaller-displacement for similar horsepower engines in locomotives, and they by-and-large didn't work. For example, one of the first was C&NW, who re-powered an SD45 with a Caterpillar engine in the 1980s (a lot of press in Peoria then). There also was Morrison-Knudson who built new MK5000s with Cat diesels for SP (I lived in Denver then, the Mayor came out to publicize the new "first 5000HP units"), Ziegler Equipment in MN who re-powered some BN GP20s, etc., I recall several others. None of these were successful, and in fact the MK units were re-engined with EMD 645s by Utah Railroad. Things may have changed since then, but I doubt it.
Author:  AlcoC420 [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PMC, you are a bit off on the engine speed on truck at 1500 rpms. Most semi truck engines are more around 1800 to 2300 rpms. I owned a semi years ago with a 671 Detroit diesel in it and it shifted best at 2150 rpms, others I have recently driven shift best at 1800 or slightly above.

You are right about the Cat cost. A friend owns some Cat construction equipment and the parts cost are through the roof. They had John Deer farm equipment and I worked for them when their father purchased a Cat backhoe against my pleadings. He found out the first time he purchased filters. On the John Deere equipment there was a lot of interchangeability with filters, with the 3 Cat machines, there was none.

Cat, as I have been told, got out of the line of semi tractors they were making and dropped completely out of the over the road truck engines. Part of that, was because they could not produce what they needed to make their truck engines meet Tier 4 standards. They were purchasing the fuel systems from someone else, so they got out.

I also understand your friend talking about the Cat truck heads. My friend had a Peterbilt with a 3406 Cat engine. It needed an overhaul and they did not want to pay Cat their high price. So, they cut corners and went to a non-Cat mechanic who cut corners to save money. In the end, they paid any way. On a Cat head, if you rebuild it, you throw everything away, but the head if it is not cracked. I advised them on this, but they never listened. They reused the valves and the keepers and dropped the first valve within days of the trucks return. It went back to the shop 3 times.

Many people believe in Cat heavy equipment, but Cat is not what it was 40 years ago, when it was really KING.
Author:  PMC [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
AlcoC420 wrote:
PMC, you are a bit off on the engine speed on truck at 1500 rpms. Most semi truck engines are more around 1800 to 2300 rpms. I owned a semi years ago with a 671 Detroit diesel in it and it shifted best at 2150 rpms, others I have recently driven shift best at 1800 or slightly above.

.

I actually am a truck driver among other things, the trucks I drive (Volvos and Freightliners, automatics) never get above 1500, but I am sure they could if you wanted to. The trucks more and more are taking the control away from the driver. But 1800 is even worse. Once in a while I drive Kenworths with the paccar engine and I know they will let you overrev (and then the computer screen throws a fit and says "seek service immediately").
Author:  Nova55 [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
An interesting note is that Cat (and MTU) have pretty much taken over the Marine world. Not much is being built with EMD's anymore, let alone anything else. Even GE's are slowly starting to be used more in tugs. One company I know decided to go GE after using MTU's for some time.
Author:  Ron Travis [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
How does D&S plan to deploy their new diesels? Will they just be assigned arbitrarily as needed on various trains, or will they be limited to trains advertised as being diesel, versus those being advertised as being steam powered?
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
Ron Travis wrote:
How does D&S plan to deploy their new diesels? Will they just be assigned arbitrarily as needed on various trains, or will they be limited to trains advertised as being diesel, versus those being advertised as being steam powered?
It is reported that the initial use the diesels for maintenance of way purposes.

Beyond that, it is expected that should there be fear of fire due to drought conditions, etc. they might be used to supplement the steam locomotives that have been converted to burn oil; while the coal burners are stored.
Author:  TRoberts [ Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
The American Heritage Railway's Great Smoky Mountains Railroad is very clear in their advertising if Steam or Diesel will be operating. This summer Durango & Silverton was also clear which Cascade Canyon Express trips would be diesel vs. steam.

I don't think that will change.

Obviously, if there is a last-minute mechanical or weather-related issue diesel can now be substituted vs. canceling the trip entirely.

I know my first choice would be for the Durango & Silverton to never change at all. The historic operations there are very special. But considering their future and the fact that they operate through National Forest it's obviously very smart of them to be investing in diesel and oil-conversions.

I'm kicking myself for not making it out to Durango last fall to see what maybe was the last of an era where 3 or 4 coal-burning trains made the historic trip from Durango to Silverton.
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