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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:38 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5654
Location: southeastern USA
Start with what the last one cost, and let it fluctuate with the changes in the cost of the materials and hired skills you need. If you are smart, you also invest in new tubes when they are cheap and stock them indoors, and build your capabilities for doing in-house work so you don;t have to contract out stuff - you can even start making parts to stock that will also protect your current operating schedule with immediately available spares. If you're not smart, you'll concentrate on just the operating while letting the rest go assuming something supernatural will happen in 15 years or so........

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:19 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 489
Location: New Franklin, OH
Dick_Morris wrote:
I agree that establishing a fund for the 1472 day inspection is good business practice, but how does one determine how much needs to be available for work that will be done in about 15 years?

If the cost accounting of your current or previous 1472 is detailed enough, I'd think you can use that with adjustments in materials, labor, manhours, contractors/subs to be able to forecast/estimate what the future costs would be taking into consideration inflation trends in each category. There's no such thing as too much detail when tracking a project.

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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:05 pm
Posts: 70
I thought that Soo 4-6-2 #2719 was to have all revenue from when it operated during its' first 15 years (after being rebuilt for operation in 1998) placed in a fund that would pay for it's second 1472 rebuild. In 2007 it's time was up and there were no funds available for a 1472. I asked a couple of people who are usually knowledgeable and they told me there was to be a fund but nobody knows what happened to it if it even existed in the first place.

I point the above out as a potential pitfall in fundraising in advance of a 1472.

I also admit 2719's situation was different than most as it was not owned by the railroads/museums it operated for. Even if 2719 was leased out there should have been payments made to the owning organization and those monies placed in a fund for 2719's next 1472. So if there was indeed a 1472 fund for 2719 what happened to it?

In my opinion fundraising for a 1472 will only be successful with an organization that is transparent, keeps things in good repair and owns their own equipment, buildings and property.

We all have seen what happens with lack of ownership (example: Indiana Transportation Museum's right of way which impacted everything else) or poor project management/lack of transparency (example: PRR 1361 in the past) as things usually do not turn out well or get stalled.


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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5654
Location: southeastern USA
If your organization is dysfunctional all bets are off anyhow. Historical failures of competency doesn't mean you can't do it right today. Don't use it as an excuse not to try.

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 116
Robert J wrote:
I thought that Soo 4-6-2 #2719 was to have all revenue from when it operated during its' first 15 years (after being rebuilt for operation in 1998) placed in a fund that would pay for it's second 1472 rebuild. In 2007 it's time was up and there were no funds available for a 1472. I asked a couple of people who are usually knowledgeable and they told me there was to be a fund but nobody knows what happened to it if it even existed in the first place.

I point the above out as a potential pitfall in fundraising in advance of a 1472.

I also admit 2719's situation was different than most as it was not owned by the railroads/museums it operated for. Even if 2719 was leased out there should have been payments made to the owning organization and those monies placed in a fund for 2719's next 1472. So if there was indeed a 1472 fund for 2719 what happened to it?

In my opinion fundraising for a 1472 will only be successful with an organization that is transparent, keeps things in good repair and owns their own equipment, buildings and property.

We all have seen what happens with lack of ownership (example: Indiana Transportation Museum's right of way which impacted everything else) or poor project management/lack of transparency (example: PRR 1361 in the past) as things usually do not turn out well or get stalled.


Responding to this because I've seen some of the same commentary in different places and I think its important the record be set straight to the extent I am able to do so.

Soo Line 2719 operated on the North Shore Scenic Railroad from 2006 until 2013. The locomotive was leased to the museum by its then owner, the Locomotive & Tower Preservation Fund, LLC. Terms of the lease included payments equivalent to a portion of each ticket sold to the L&TPF that were to be set aside as seed money for the next 1472. The museum made these payments all the way up until the last year or two of the lease, and held the final payments in escrow as there was some concern over the stability of the L&TPF as an organization and a lack of transparency on the total amount of funds that had been set aside to date. When the locomotive's certificate expired, the L&TPF was basically non existent, to the point that the State of Wisconsin could not find reporting records of the organization for several years prior and essentially deemed it inactive and dissolved. With no account of where the money that had been set aside by the L&TPF disappeared to, an ongoing restoration of a second steam locomotive belonging to the Lake Superior Railroad Museum and unwilling to begin restoration on a piece of equipment no longer under lease, the locomotive was parked under cover.

So in essence, the Lake Superior Railroad Museum did exactly what Robert J suggested: Payments were made. A fund was set up. What happened to those funds is not a question I or the LSRM can answer.

I agree entirely that the key to funding a 1472 is transparency, keeping the locomotive in good repair while it is in operation, and if at all possible the owner and operator are the same entity. If they aren't make sure both organizations are equal partners on sound managerial and financial footing. If nothing else, learn that from the 2719

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 Post subject: Re: Fundraising Techniques for 1472 Day Inspection
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:05 pm
Posts: 70
The Fireman wrote:
So in essence, the Lake Superior Railroad Museum did exactly what Robert J suggested: Payments were made. A fund was set up. What happened to those funds is not a question I or the LSRM can answer.

I agree entirely that the key to funding a 1472 is transparency, keeping the locomotive in good repair while it is in operation, and if at all possible the owner and operator are the same entity. If they aren't make sure both organizations are equal partners on sound managerial and financial footing. If nothing else, learn that from the 2719


Thank you for clarifying the situation for 2719 while under lease to LSRM. I thought it was something like that with a fund set up for a 1472. I've been to LSRM a number of times and always have found it to be a dynamic professional organization. Can understand why LSRM elected to rebuild LSRM-owned D&NE 28 instead of the then-leased 2719. I saw 2719 on it's next to last weekend in service back in 2013 - it was/is a handsome engine!

A shame how it turned out for 2719 and as you said, a lesson to be learned here...


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