Given the change in the class one's attitude to excursions and especially steam excursions, the MTM has pretty much given up on restoring any of their steamers to operation. NP2156 was disassembled and an operational restoration begun about 20 years ago. Now we are working diligently to get 2156 back on its wheels. Whether it is to be cosmetically complete or to be a display of the internal structure of a steam loco has not been decided. NP S-10 No.328 and NP Q3 No. 2153 will wait until NP 2156 has been completed to whatever level is decided upon.

I wonder why? Having a restored steam locomotive is great for publicity, marketing, and attracting guests to special events.

If you’ve already started a restoration, seems odd to cancel it.

I do not think that anyone has mentioned the Bridgton & Saco River #8 (Baldwin, 1918) owned by the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum at Portland. I believe that it is the first time she is in steam since she left the Edaville Railroad in 1993.

It is possible that she may run at the WW&F Railway Museum in 2019.

Ted 66 Maine Two-Foot Gauge Fan

If I recall correctly, B&SR #8 operated briefly in Portland at Maine Narrow Gauge Co. & Museum (MNG) several years ago. It has been stored in the back of their engine-house for many years.

That said, I can state that there are certainly no plans for the WW&F to operate B&SR #8 in 2019.

Has anyone had any news of NKP 624? Last I heard of it, it was disassembled in Wabash Indiana.

Restoring a steam locomotive to operation, especially a locomotive that was displayed in a harsh environment like Minnesota is not an inexpensive proposition. While the ultrasound survey of the 2156 boiler shows promise, the firebox and all the stays are another question. Also, repair of the frost damaged passages in the left saddle casting is highly problematic. It comes down to money. Restoration of the 2156 is likely to cost in the neighborhood of $1.5 million which the MTM does not have and is not likely to raise any time soon. On the revenue side, given the environment in Minnesota, it is unlikely that a restored locomotive would see any main line service unless it is owned by the Friends of the 261. And the operating costs are prohibitive just to run back and forth in MTM's small yard area. So, cosmetic restoration is pretty much a no brainer.

In the land of "rainbows and unicorn farts" it will be nice to have everything the way we want it. In the real world money rules. It is a cold hard fact that if you want any organization to keep the doors open you cannot continue on with a bad idea that is going to break your organization into bankruptcy. It is no different than an individual living on $15,000 a year, living on their own not in moms basement. That person may want a $75,000 GMC dually crew cab truck to shock and awe his friends and his own ego. Truth is regardless of all the "good reasons" he should have one is he can't afford it. It may seem odd but for profits and non profits alike have to look at the whole picture with realistic insight. We all would like to see steam running and our favorite projects completed. Truth is like many museums many projects were started when they shouldn't of been. I do not understand how anybody could find this "odd" that a project gets cancelled because they have no place to run, no coaches to pull and no money to even start or finish this type of huge project.

What MTM is attempting to do with the #1256 is about as honorable as can be hoped for. They are attempting to address what they can while it is apart and put it back together. Sorry CZ but I would not want you to be directing my museums finances if you think the current plan is "odd". Again with no budget to speak of and no future budget or operational use in the horizon I think MTM is lucky to have a volunteer base who is trying to do what they are.

They are lucky to have only one steam locomotive torn apart at this time. At Mid Continent the organization took 6 locomotives apart. 3 were dismantled in the 1970s and 3 more in the early 2000 era. Two went to homes off the property with one cosmetically restored under a roof, one went to private ownership and is at least being worked on occasionally. One of the six was put back together and restored and is running out in Oregon. One is a 2+ million dollar restoration in progress and one is stripped down completely with parts scattered all over the property. The #6 is a tank engine and stripped down but not as bad as other were. So after almost 20 yrs one is running. Hind sight is 20/20 about starting projects and we can't go back and change the decisions made at the time. But we can learn if we try hard. The #1256 going back together for probable display is the best thing right now. Few in this world have the money to "make the steam dream" come true. Reality bites but it is what it is? Yes we need to dream and plant seeds of success for future reality. But we also need to temper dreams and know the difference between fantasy, dreams and reality. Still working on this concept myself by the way. Regards, John.

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The 38-year on-again-off-again saga of 2156's restoration has had as much to do with places to run her as it has to do with the freeze-damaged cylinder. She was pulled from display in Como Zoo in 1981 after the successful restoration of 328, when the museum was still leasing shop space in the old NP/BN Como Shops, and their steam operations were all mainline excursions on various local railroads. Being a larger engine and capable of higher speeds than 328, 2156 would have been well-suited to that type of operation. Then the freeze damage was discovered, and the BN closed the Como shops and sold the complex for redevelopment, leaving the museum homeless, so 2156's restoration came to a screeching halt. Also, by the mid-1980s, the cost of liability insurance for the mainline trips started to skyrocket, so those trips mostly dried up too. The MTM was given a section of the old BN/NP Stillwater branch, and they rehabbed the line for regular weekend operations out of Stillwater starting in the late 80s. 328 was a natural engine for that operation, having worked the line back in the steam era, and weight restrictions on the line precluded a larger steam locomotive like 2156 from operating there. The stripped-down 2156 sat in open storage outside the Minnesota Commercial roundhouse with little or no work being done on her until the museum moved into the Jackson Street facility.

NIMBY pressure shut down the Stillwater operation in the early 90s, so they moved to Osceola on the steam-friendly Wisconsin Central, former Soo mainline trackage. That line could support an engine of 2156's size, and with 328's boiler ticket expiring in the late 90s, work began again in earnest on 2156. The museum also acquired 2153 from East Grand Forks around that time, and plans were initially to restore both Pacifics to steam. Then Wisconsin Central sold out to CN, who allowed the Osceola operation to continue but without steam. That's basically the current state of things, as I understand it. It seems that every time a window of opportunity opens to operate 2156, it closes again before the locomotive is ready. Perhaps the best approach (money permitting) would be to get her as close to operable as possible, so that she could be brought online quickly if/when the opportunity presents itself again.

I have a lot of fond memories of that locomotive from my childhood in Minnesota. When I was a little kid, if anyone asked me what my favorite animal was when we went to the zoo (before she was pulled from display), I would always say "the iron horse". My father and I used to volunteer with the MTM back in the 80s and early 90s. I would so love to see 2156 run sometime in my lifetime (there will be a big check coming their way if I ever win the megabucks), but short of that, it would be nice to see her cosmetically complete again.

All that was written in this form is that restoration had been cancelled because of the mainline railroads current attitude toward steam. I had assumed that the locomotive was a good contender for restoration and that a restoration plan, including fundraising, was already in place. If that wasn't the case, then the restoration was started with poor planning to begin with.

Yes if a current plan, including funding, was in place to restore a steam locomotive to operation I think it would be odd to abruptly cancel the plans just because there wasn't an easy way to run mainline trips. That's what it had sounded like.

Pretty sure I don't live in a world with unicorns... I just see what other organization have been able to accomplish while others claim it's not practical or not realistic. Again... if the funding isn't there and it's really a 1.5 million project, it may very well be a better plan to do a nice cosmetic restoration.

Sorry CZ I thought you might of read some of the earlier threads regarding the #1256 regarding bearing material and tolerances as well as earlier in this same thread about the situation surrounding #1256. That is why I struggled with it being "odd" that the project was cancelled. I thought you knew the situation better. See page two somewhere in the middle of that page, by Les Beckman
and myself.

Never say never. It could happen some day. Few of us ever thought there would be a UP Big Boy coming back on line. I have been wrong many times about many things in the restoration of RR equipment. And a host of other subjects. I mentioned Mid Continent before. In the early 1970s I would of gladly lit the match to a couple of wood coaches that I thought with all my heart would never ever be restored. They were in very sorry shape. Luckily for the world of restoration I was wrong and a couple of these coaches are genuine treasures and wonderful finished restorations of a grand past in our history. Stranger things have happened and one day it may be #1256s day in the sun. Right now, today, by all appearances it doesn't appear to be.

As far as good planning goes I do not know of any people who were involved with failed attempts to restore steam locomotives intentionally started out with the intention of failure. I am positive that everyone involved thought their plan was solid and they were going to make it work. Good intentions and the shifting sands of the world often get intertwined with a mix of results. Those old farts that have seen this over and over recognise this and it is why we are often a little sarcastic and not as enthralled with the desires or enthusiasm of a new groups desires to restore another park engine so it can pull excursion trains. The nuts and bolts are enough to drive a mechanic mad, then you add the financials and finally where to run, who is going to run. It takes almost a miracle to make this kind of dream come to the place of loading the train up with the paying public. The story of MTM and the #1256 is more common than most people realize. Only the names and numbers change, but the outcomes are often very similar. Regards, John.

double post erased.

Conway Scenic #7470 should be running again soon and the new ownership at Conway is seriously considering restoring B&M 501 once 7470 is finished.

C&O 2716 is about to get roller bearing trucks on the tender which will allow the locomotive to be towed to the Kentucky Rail Heritage Center in Ravenna.

Once the rail that CSX donated is laid into the shop, it won't be long before the Big Mike is at its new home.

Not a new locomotive to the list, but it was suggested, having just returned from Owosso, MI and the Steam Railroading Institute, home to PM #1225, that I might share some pics of C&NW 4-6-0 No. 175 under restoration:

Just posted "over there" at RP with detailed caption:

Frame
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/685019/

Boiler
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/685020/

/Mitch