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 Post subject: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
We all agree that Southern No. 1401 was built by Baldwin Locomotive Works (c/n 66888) in 1926. edit: No, no no: it was built by American Locomotive Co!
What month? My usually reliable sources do not agree: one says March, another July and the Prince book shows none at all.
I would call the Smithsonian, but they are closed due to the partial government shutdown.
Does anyone have a photograph of the builder's plate?
Cast in bronze is as good as carved in stone...
Thank you in advance for any help!
J.David


Last edited by J.David on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 397
I have a general comment on trying to pin down the exact dates a piece of rolling stock was built. Could a steam engine such as the 1401 really be built in 30 days? Maybe. I know passenger cars in the days of post-war full production might be on the assembly line for at least several months, if not more, from beginning to end. Therefore, I tend to prefer delivery dates, or date outshopped, as being far more accurate, compared to any alleged "Built date" or "Built month". The same thinking goes for the alleged "date" a locomotive or car was scrapped, as few could be scrapped completely in one day back then.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 77
Location: Michigan
J.David wrote:
Greetings:
We all agree that Southern No. 1401 was built by Baldwin Locomotive Works (c/n 66888) in 1926.
What month? My usually reliable sources do not agree: one says March, another July and the Prince book shows none at all.
I would call the Smithsonian, but they are closed due to the partial government shutdown.
Does anyone have a photograph of the builder's plate?
Cast in bronze is as good as carved in stone...
Thank you in advance for any help!
J.David


According to steamlocomotive.info, 03/1926. See the link for more information:
http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=310

Adam Wright


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1561
Location: Strasburg, PA
I would advise you to check Conrad's book, but I'll bet you've already done that...

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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1561
Location: Strasburg, PA
Topfuel wrote:
Could a steam engine such as the 1401 really be built in 30 days?

In the middle of a production run, you bet. The extreme example would be the Mount Gretna 4-4-0's that were completed within seven days of the order being placed. Small and simple to be sure, but also specialized.

On the other end of the spectrum would be Western Maryland's Shay #6. Unusually large, and built as a one off years after the last previously built shay was produced, I understand that she took over a year to deliver.

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Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 439
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi
According to Dave Conrad's book, she was built on March 1926,, so the information on Steam locomotive information is also correct, also.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5515
Pat Fahey wrote:
Hi
According to Dave Conrad's book, she was built on March 1926,, so the information on Steam locomotive information is also correct, also.


Pat -

I'm not sure if you, and the others commenting in this thread, are trying to pull our legs, or if you don't really KNOW. The person who initiated this thread asking about the month that 1401 was built is J. David CONRAD; who wrote the Steam Information book! Obviously, J. David's original info was "soft" and he's trying to figure out just what is correct.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:28 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Florida
Builder's plate appears to say July 1926 in this youtube video around 55 seconds in and I know you said Baldwin, but that sure looks like an Alco builder's plate to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZzJYgzSjp8


Attachments:
SR 1401 Builder's plate.JPG
SR 1401 Builder's plate.JPG [ 12.51 KiB | Viewed 2157 times ]


Last edited by Baldwin feeder on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:07 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 499
The best answer would be found on the 1401's ICC Account 51 Card.

Does anybody know of the Southern's ICC 51 cards survived?

Here is a link to a NP ICC 51 card:
http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Locomotive%20 ... s/0273.pdf

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 669
The Alco list I have shows SRy 1401 as Alco-Richmond, order R373, b/n 66888, delivered July 13, 1926.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Answering the question on how quickly an engine could be built, the B&O Museum states B&O Q-3 2-8-2 4500 was built by Baldwin in 20 days. 4500 is the first USRA engine so she was first in the production run.

http://www.borail.org/BO-No-4500.aspx

Note the B&O Museum blurb states "That same year (1957 pjm), the No. 300 (ex-4500 pjm) retired from service, and was sent to the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Museum. "

It's my understanding 4500 and P-7 4-6-2 5300 were sold for scrap to Ed Striegel who did not scrap them and, per his obituary in the Baltimore Sun, gave them to the B&O Museum around 1964.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
Thanks to one an all who replied, especially "Baldwin feeder" who provided the link to youtube which showed exactly what I was looking for: proof that it was finished in July.
Thanks too to David Hamley who had good information.
I am embarrassed that I typed in Baldwin rather than American! I need to take a day or two off from this project...
It is possible that Southern Railway placed the order for that batch in March 1926, but what I'm interested in is the date the locomotive was completed.
I would note that in 1989 when I was there as the Valley Railroad's inspector during the construction of SY1647M, TangShan Locomotive & Rolling Stock Works budgeted 2-1/2 months to build an SY from raw materials to finished product on the test track. At that time they were only building 12~14 per year with a very limited work force and some department only working a few days per week. One of the officials at TangShan told me that before the earthquake they could build 300 per year.
Be well,
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:55 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 149
Wasn’t Striegel the one who also saved Reading 2100 and 2101?


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 564
Location: St. Louis, MO
Yes he was, and his yard held a lot of grest diesels too. I only went there once and saw a 44 tonner and a baby Trainmaster that I clearly remember.

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St. Louis


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 Post subject: Re: Southern Railway No. 1401 question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:00 pm
Posts: 1
We visited the Smithsonian last summer and I snapped this photo of the builders plate on the 1401.


Attachments:
SR 1401 Builders Plate small.JPG
SR 1401 Builders Plate small.JPG [ 36.26 KiB | Viewed 1129 times ]
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