It is currently Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:02 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
Thought some of you might like this. I just put it together over the last 4 nights combing through over 2000 pages of records. As we know, Winton became Cleveland Diesel, and those are on here as well. The EMD engines sold for marine and industrial use until 1960/1961 carried Cleveland Diesel plates with Cleveland serial numbers, and later into the 1950's carried both CDED and EMD numbers.

I have tried to format this best I could for the forum, so bare with me if it comes askew.

Model G/D Year Beginning serial #
LB Gas 1916 15
11 Gas 1913 18
W5 Gas 1915 26
W6 Gas 1913 33
W2 Gas 1914 39
W9 Gas 1914 77
W6A Gas 1915 110
W17 Gas 1915 124
W28 Gas 1915 134
W30 Gas 1916 175
W29 Gas 1916 179
W17A Gas 1917 209
4W6A Gas 1917 213
W24A Oil 1917 230A
W40 Oil 1918 310
86 1920 313
W35 Oil 1918 315
W43 337
90 1921 371
54 Oil 1920 425
62 1920 444
85 1920 502
GL-5 1920 510
W18 1920 512
89 1920 523
GL-5N 1920 530
67 1921 540
91 1921 630
59A 1922 639
96 Gas 1922 646
54A Oil 1922 662
95 1922 673
100 Pump 1922 700
AC-3 Steam 1922 703
59RH 1922 718
103 Pump 1923 737
102 Com. 1923 744
99 Pump 1923 747
101 1923 782
105 Air Inj 1923 794
104 1924 860
107B 1924 876
104B 1924 900
W2A 1924 915
111 Oil 1924 930
114G 1925 950
109 Comp. 1925 970
117 Oil 1925 1005
W43B 1925 1010
114C conv. 114 1925 1030
123 Comp 1925 1070
115 Air Inj 1925 1015
116 Air Inj 1925 1109
121 Oil 1925 1112
118 Comp 1926 1133
123 Comp 1925 1143
102 Comp 1925 1148
106B Gas 1924 1650
110 1924 1659
106 Gas 1924 1672
120 Gas 1925 1722
124 Gas 1926 2076
125 Oil 1926 2152
120E 1926 2184
118 Comp 1926 2215
105A Air Inj 1926 2296
119 1926 2299
137 Comp 1927 2408
106A Gas 1926 2412
Krupp? 1926 2417
126 Pump 1926 2465
116C Air Inj 1926 2473
109A 1926 2511
127 Pump 1926 2524
6-128S Oil 1926 2525
131 1926 2536
130 Gas 1927 2560
102 Comp 1927 2588
100 Pump 1927 2589
99 Pump 1927 2590
6-138 Diesel 1927 2775
139 Comp 1927 2777
6-115A Diesel 1928 2799
123 Compressor 1928 2815
6-117C 1928 2829
6-120 Diesel 1928 2841
8-120 Diesel 1928 2843
148 1928 2920
8-138 Diesel 1928 2937
6-133 Diesel 1929 2953
144 2957
124
137 1928 3004
146 1928 3050
141 1928 3107
160 Comp 1929 3112
3CU Gen Set 1929 3116
6-145 1929 3118 Direct Reversing
W2R Gen Set 1929 3152
170 Comp 1929 3212
161 Diesel 1929 3240
154 Gas 1929 3242
149 1929 3253 Direct Rev or Gen
6-158 Diesel 1929 3267
163 1929 3343
8-157 1929 3348 Direct rev
6-128A 1929 3355 Direct Rev
164 1929 3400
147 1929 3416 Never used
153 1929 3518
GM Sale 6/20/30, last ind. Winton #3559 6/12/30
165 1930 3592
127 1930 3700
155 1930 3718
152 1930 3724
175 Comp 1930 3727
176 Gen Set 1930 3818
180 Comp 1930 3839
181 Pump 1930 3841
129 Diesel 1930 3862
157A 1930 3896 Direct Rev or Gen
6-1460 1930 3935
1480 1930 3988
174 Diesel 1930 3989
1580 Diesel 1930 4000
1290 Diesel 1930 4036
144A 1930 4046
6-158 Diesel 1930 4049
6-182 1931 4146 Direct Rev
185 Gen Set 1931 4187 Direct Rev
3-179 Gen Set 1931 4211
2-104M Gen Set 1931 4221
174A Gen Set 1931 4279 Direct Rev or Gen
179A Gear 1932 4280
199 Gen/Comp 1932 4330
197 Gear 1932 4364
203 Gen Set 1932 4365
6-158C Diesel 1933 4376 Direct Rev
191 1932 4382
3-152 1932 4395
8-204 1932 4400
207 1932 4405
3-1330 1932 4406
179AC Comp 1933 4414
#4433, 201 prototype, listed as "Used 201A" in record
194 Distillate 1932 4436 Only one built
220 Comp 1933 4444
219 Gen Set 1933 4445
148 1933 4448 Nat Gas Engine
205 Comp 1933 4453
141C Diesel 1933 4478 Direct Rev
191A Distillate 1933 4500
221 1933 4515
214 1934 4574
192 1934 4583
201A 1934 4605
192 1934 4612
16-201A Diesel 1934 4621 1st Submarine Diesel
228 Diesel 1935 4637
X1-201A Diesel 1934 4649
12-201A Diesel 1935 4650
8-201A Diesel 1935 4652
4-106S 1934 4661
232 Compressor 1934 4681
234 Experimental 1935 4683
233 Diesel 1935 4723
8-243 Experimental 1935 4740
6-241 Diesel 1936 4813
6-233A Diesel 1936 4823
8-248 Diesel 1936 4837 Experimental RR Eng.
8-130 1936 4880 Nat Gas Engine
I/JU 1936 4882 Listed as "Diesel Junkers", several
4-192 1936 4923
16-248 Diesel 1937 5001
3-1920A Gen Set 1936 5041
16-248 Experimental 5054 # changed to 5003
2-251 Experimental 1936 5062
192A Diesel 1937 5092
8-213 Diesel 1937 5094
16-248 Diesel 1937 5277 Production
16-258 Diesel 1938 5295 Direct Rev
8-130C Bosch Injection 1937 5415
Winton changed to Cleveland Diesel in 1938 Engine 5442 is a CDED, so it's around there.
4-223 Diesel 1938 5446
8-567 Diesel 1938 5454
6-567 Diesel 1938 5470
12-567 Diesel 1938 5471
16-567 Diesel 1938 5475 In Railcar (Standby Gen)
8-270 Diesel 1939 5495
6-174 Diesel 1939 5528
16-258S Turbo 1940 5594 Direct Rev. Highest HP Winton/CDED Engine @2000
8-268B Diesel 1939 5598
12-278 Diesel 1940 5600
4-268 Diesel 1939 5613
8-268 Diesel 1939 5616
8-268A Diesel 1939 5619
12-288 Diesel 1940 5621 Direct Rev
6-228A Diesel 1940 5633 Gen Set
No longer in numerical order starting in the early 1940s, due to large blocks of #s assigned to models for WWII
3-268A Diesel 1940 5667
16-248A Experimental 1941 5695
12-248 1941 5725
6-248 1941 5728
6-278 1941 5815
8-278 1942 7347
16-278 1942 7747
12-278A 1943 7916
16-278A 1942 9753
8-278A 1944 15246
6-278A 1943 15902
8-567AM 1944 A-1 DPC Tugs
12-567 1942 N-1 A/ATLP/ATLS LST Engines, APB, AN class
16-338H 1952? N/A Engines not recorded. Vertical Radial
3-268A NM 1956 22763 Non Magnetic
8-268A NM 1955 30544 Prototype Non Magnetic
8-268AG 1955 31206
8-268C 1954 39001
16-358 1955 N/A Engines not recorded. Vertical Radial diesel
16-358H 1955 N/A Engines not recorded. Horizontal Spark ignition Gas
8-268CG 1955 39002
8-278A NM 1955 45321 Non Magnetic
8-498 1956 46001
8-498 NM 1957 46016 Non Magnetic
12-278A NM 1954 50696
12-498S 1955 51001 Development Engine
12-498 1956 51002 Production
16-498S 1955 57001
16-498 1956 57002 Production
12-567AC 1956 S-9003
16-567AC 2914 Rebuilt RR Engines
16-567C 55C15
8-567C 1955 55K77
12-567C 1955 54E75
6-567C 1958 58H51
8-567CR 1959 59J82
16-567D 1961 61C48


Pertaining to the Winton models, if it did not specifically state that the engine was gas or diesel, it is blank. Winton also marketed pumps and compressors, and assigned them models. Until the 1930s, Winton was very much a "new model every week" company. Some models only have 2 or 3 engines being built, while others have dozens.

_________________
https://vintagedieseldesign.wordpress.com/


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:14 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1521
That is a great project you are doing. Thanks very much for sharing it with us.

PC

_________________
Advice from the multitude costs nothing and is often worth just that. (EMD-1945)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:59 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:22 am
Posts: 24
This is very interesting list and the first time I've seen a list of Winton model and engine numbers. Please PM me at your convenience.

Thanks,

Bill Buhrmaster


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Philadelphia, PA
This list is fascinating already. Here are the power plants for UP M-10000, CB&Q 9900.

It shows Winton built an experimental 8-248 in 1936 (#4837) for RR service and Cleveland built 567's in each size in 1938. Proof of concept for EMC before La Grange set up production?

Fascinating.

Phil Mulligan


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
Phil,

The Cleveland branded 567s were built by EMD at LaGrange, but converted to marine/stationary by Cleveland in Cleveland. One way to tell was EMDs were suede grey, and Clevelands were painted aluminum, atleast early on.

_________________
https://vintagedieseldesign.wordpress.com/


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:29 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1521
One additional Winton engine is the Model 318 diesel. This was an experimental W32 engine built in the World War Two era, with only one being built. It never went into commercial production. "W" configuration engines are an amazing piece of machinery. Rather than describing the engine arrangement in text, I would suggest watching this video of a miniature W32 engine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVuKp5M3de8

PC

_________________
Advice from the multitude costs nothing and is often worth just that. (EMD-1945)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:06 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 898
Location: NJ
I went through the experimental submarine Albacore in Portsmouth NH recently. It has a pair of 'pancake' engines, with the crankshaft vertical. Were these Wintons or Clevelands? I can't really pick out the model from the list, unless it is the 16-338H or 16-358, which have later dates. The 'pancake' engine was developed for either mine sweepers or landing craft during the war.

Interesting point is that the generators in that sub are below the engine, so any main seal oil leaks go into the generator. And a total engine HP of 2000 was not enough to keep the batteries charged long, supporting a pair of 7500 HP main propulsion motors. The sub was experimental, of course, and many of the hull, sail, rudder and diving plane configurations in use today were developed on the Albacore.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:15 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 1521
The Albacore has the postwar 16-338 engines, which are a Cleveland Diesel built engine that uses the same cylinder arrangement and similar design principles as the 16-184A engines that EMD produced for the US Navy during World War Two.

PC

_________________
Advice from the multitude costs nothing and is often worth just that. (EMD-1945)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: Chicago USA
So there were Winton diesels before the 201 prototypes. I figured that may have been the case but was not sure. Just not suitable for locomotives, I presume.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:02 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1769
Location: Southern California
filmteknik wrote:
So there were Winton diesels before the 201 prototypes. I figured that may have been the case but was not sure. Just not suitable for locomotives, I presume.
The Winton firm was one of the early manufacturers of automobiles in the USA. As such they built gasoline engines. But the company's interest in diesel engines came about when a daughter, granddaughter or a niece of one of the officers, if not of Mr. Winton, was badly burned in a gasoline fire onboard an early gasoline powered motor boat. This lead to the development of diesel engines for automotive and marine use.

GM in Detroit under Kettering had also been developing a diesel engine for automotive use when it bought Winton in the late 1920s for its diesel work. Then GM realized that EMC which leased office space from Winton and utilized Winton engines in the 1920's & 30's "doublebugs" it sold. Soon GM had also acquired EMC.

The above is written from memory. There was a book about Alexander Winton named Famous but Forgotten; the story of Alexander Winton that I've had for several years. There are copies of this book from used book dealers with extremely high prices. But, I found a more modest price at the on-line store of one of the automobile museums.

_________________
Brian Norden


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:51 pm
Posts: 24
Location: USA PA 16508
Hello Group,

Perhaps you can help me date some photos I got at a train show
from a former Erie GE employee's estate. He was in the right place when they were pitching them and saved them. There are 2 boxes of photos with dates from about 1910 to 1940's, some obvious, some labeled, some mysteries.

There are 4 b/w photos of just the power plant sitting on wood in front of a black curtain. The hand-written caption reads:
"The Electro Motive Co type 124 power plant for Can National Rys six cylinder 159 H.P. Winton engine DT-510 GE generator."
One is the generator end, one the motor end and 2 different side views.

Also in the file but not necessarily related are 2 blueish images on paper.
The first one is of Canadian National #15819
The second is captioned "Beardmore Engine in W.M. & El Co equipped Canadian Nat Ry System"

There may be other information in the files related to the Wintons that I don't have the knowledge to correlate yet. Educate me please, but presume I don't speak 'locomotive'---I just know enough to save documents whenever possible.

I don't know if they're already published elsewhere or not. If interested I can have the photos and blue images scanned.

Can anyone provide more information for me to keep in my file for any other researchers? Or let me know what Canadian National locomotives may have had the Winton engine so I can pull other photos into the file?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:08 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Alberta, Canada
Here is some additional information on the CN cars, 15819 was one of their first self-propelled railcars (Doodlebugs), outshopped in August 1924.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/V ... iesels.htm

Sister 15820 set a record in a publicity stunt the next year, dashing from Montreal to Vancouver in only 67 hours.

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/V ... R15820.htm

Aside from diesel and distillate-powered railcars the only Winton-engined locomotives on CN's system were a pair of EMC model SC switchers built for subsiduary Grand Trunk Western, numbered 7800 and 7801. They of course had 201A engines.

A pair of much larger (1330 HP V12) Beardmore diesels powered CN 9000 and 9001, a pair of boxcabs outshopped in 1928 and 1929 respectively (they were originally run together under a single number, 9000). These were among the earliest road diesels built in North America.

https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canad ... 2_1965.pdf

If it is not too much trouble to scan and post the photos I would love to see them, any photos of CN's early forays into internal combustion are quite rare and valuable.

_________________
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
4/1938 Cleveland Diesel drawing of a 6-567 for stationary service.


Image

_________________
https://vintagedieseldesign.wordpress.com/


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 434
Gentlemen -

I have since cleaned up and expanded the list quite a bit, I posted it today on my blog.

https://vintagedieseldesign.wordpress.c ... -the-list/

_________________
https://vintagedieseldesign.wordpress.com/


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Winton Engine Models
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 332
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Winton built heavy marine diesels before the 201. "Boss" Kettering had diesels in both of his yachts, and according to his bio (Charles F. Kettering: A Biography By Thomas Alvin Boyd) they led to GM purchasing Winton.

I assume "201A 1934 4605" is the engine in the Pioneer Zephyr.

"16-201A Diesel 1934 4621 1st Submarine Diesel" shows the next number is 4637; this would be the USN order for 16 engines to power four Porpoise Class submarines, SS-172-175, introducing diesel-electric propulsion to submarines. These each had four 16-201A's and were the prototypes for the USN's fleet submarines of WWII. During WWII, these boats' 16-201A's were replaced with 12-278A's.

Phil Mulligan


Last edited by EJ Berry on Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Becky Morgan, Brian Norden, Google [Bot], hullmat991, Jennie K, p51, Steamguy73 and 55 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: